Thoughts on Excessive Speed

Thekwango said:
it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.
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Well, technically it's the sudden lack of it that causes the real problems... :p

Gibbo said:
The biggest driving tip I can give and share to anyone is look ahead, very far ahead, the mistake of majority of drivers is they only look at the next corner coming up or even worse just six foot ahead of the car.
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6ft? you give people too much credit - the end of their bonnet is about as much as most people round here seem to manage (if they can manage to drag their eyes away from their phone for a few seconds...).

Funny one this morning when walking my son to school. Couple of cars in a queue not moving, 2nd in the queue starts beeping at the 1st to go, clearly oblivious to the fact there was nowhere for them to go because there was a minibus approaching - rather slowly as people park like absolute **** on both sides of the already narrow road, and so there was barely enough room for them.

The penny finally dropped when the 2nd car pulled out to overtake the 1st, came face-to-face with the minibus, except by this point, they then couldn't move back in because the 3rd car in the queue had moved forward after the 2nd had pulled out :cry:
 
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Thekwango said:
it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.
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As ever, the argument isn't persuasive without context else it looks an awful lot like you intend that nobody should drive above a speed at which any collision could be fatal. We'd see motorway speeds drop precipitously in such a regime as an impact with something at 70mph has the very real potential to be fatal despite it being legal.
 
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Thekwango said:
it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.
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It isn't by most measures.

I am all for 20mph limits where we have children on the loose, but if I see kids on motorways I want jailed parents not 20mph limits.

I am all for reduced limits at busy times but if speed is the determination of risk I want no more planes, trains or speedboats let alone cars.

It is like all life shades of grey and a balanced perspective. Transfixing on speed is terribly simplistic in my view.
 
Here's a curveball. What about "excessive" speed where there is a lower limit in place for "air quality". Particularly when the vehicle exceeding said limit is an EV?
 
Thekwango said:
it is almost always the speed that kills though. speed may not have caused the accident but it is it which will cause the fatalities.
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as tempted as i am to say it doesnt it is the crashing into things, i wont (besides someone beat me to it)

but i would say speed may amplify the effect of any accident but it isnt a lot of the time the cause of it.... driving too close to other cars, not recognising potential hazzards at the side of the road, or not taking account of the conditions that you are driving in at at least as, if not more of an issue than just the speed.
 
Haggisman said:
Here's a curveball. What about "excessive" speed where there is a lower limit in place for "air quality". Particularly when the vehicle exceeding said limit is an EV?
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"air quality" can also involve particulate matter from brakes and tyres, etc. EVs don't get a free pass there.
 
bigmike20vt said:
as tempted as i am to say it doesnt it is the crashing into things, i wont (besides someone beat me to it)

but i would say speed may amplify the effect of any accident but it isnt a lot of the time the cause of it.... driving too close to other cars, not recognising potential hazzards at the side of the road, or not taking account of the conditions that you are driving in at at least as, if not more of an issue than just the speed.
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Speed is a factor in all of those things you mentioned though.

Driving too close - lower speed means the safe distance is shorter
Not recognising potential hazards at the side of the road - the faster you are approaching, the less time you have to recognise, assess, and react to said hazard
Not taking into account the conditions - pretty obvious, e.g. wet conditions means longer braking distance, less traction, fog, darkness = lower visibility, etc.
 
Haggisman said:
The penny finally dropped when the 2nd car pulled out to overtake the 1st, came face-to-face with the minibus, except by this point, they then couldn't move back in because the 3rd car in the queue had moved forward after the 2nd had pulled out :cry:
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I see stuff like that far too often - one of the more recent ones I was in a long queue at temporary traffic lights and an ambulance joined the end of the queue but waited until the lights changed to turn on their blues and siren - at which point myself and about half the queue held our positions, the other half of the queue either started beeping people or pulling out to go around people without even looking to see, never mind hearing, the ambulance coming down the other side of the road!!! then having to awkwardly try and reverse back out its way.

I know some people have hearing impairments, etc. but I was 3rd in the queue of probably 20+ cars (I can't remember now) and I could clearly hear it when it put its siren on.
 
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Rroff said:
"air quality" can also involve particulate matter from brakes and tyres, etc. EVs don't get a free pass there.
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Unlikely to be using brakes on the motorway - particularly in an EV, and while you might have a point with tyres, I'm not sure how much of a difference rolling freely at a slightly lower speed would make, compared to the wear during acceleration/deceleration.

Neither of those actually apply in this case either, as the limits are in force to reduce NO2

Rroff said:
I see stuff like that far too often - one of the more recent ones I was in a long queue at temporary traffic lights and an ambulance joined the end of the queue but waited until the lights changed to turn on their blues and siren - at which point myself and about half the queue held our positions, the other half of the queue either started beeping people or pulling out to go around people without even looking to see, never mind hearing, the ambulance coming down the other side of the road!!! then having to awkwardly try and reverse back out its way.

I know some people have hearing impairments, etc. but I was 3rd in the queue of probably 20+ cars (I can't remember now) and I could clearly hear it when it put its siren on.
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I see many people wearing over ear headphones whilst driving these days - a lot of which now have ANC - it doesn't really surprise me that they can't hear anything :rolleyes:
 
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DRZ said:
As ever, the argument isn't persuasive without context else it looks an awful lot like you intend that nobody should drive above a speed at which any collision could be fatal. We'd see motorway speeds drop precipitously in such a regime as an impact with something at 70mph has the very real potential to be fatal despite it being legal.
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ive said multiple times my argument isn't that we drive a 2mph. and i'm not making an argument. i'm stating a fact, the speed the car is travelling at when an accident occurs (even if speed isn't a factor in causing the actual accident) will almost always have a direct effect on the seriousness of the any injuries.
 
bigmike20vt said:
but i would say speed may amplify the effect of any accident but it isnt a lot of the time the cause of it
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right in the post you quoted i've said that speed may not be the cause, but once a car crash occurs the outcome of that crash is heavily influenced by the speed at which the crash occurred.
 
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Haggisman said:
Speed is a factor in all of those things you mentioned though.

Driving too close - lower speed means the safe distance is shorter
Not recognising potential hazards at the side of the road - the faster you are approaching, the less time you have to recognise, assess, and react to said hazard
Not taking into account the conditions - pretty obvious, e.g. wet conditions means longer braking distance, less traction, fog, darkness = lower visibility, etc.
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oh sure***...... but my point is.... doing 85 on a clear sunny day on an empty dual carriageway is arguably safer than doing 70 on a miserable drizzly day at dusk whilst there are other cars on the road as well.
I dont speed like i used to.... but do still speed a little sometimes..... I know there is that thing where most people thing they are a better driver than average.... so they cant all be right, but some of the stuff i see routinely on my way home - usually well within the speed limit, the bar for average seems pretty low. Put it this way it got so bad i bought a dash cam so if ever i am involved in an accident i can use to to hopefully cover my back.


***not driving too close tho..... I disagree with you there. Too close is too close, and whilst the distance which would be deemed too close gets smaller the slower you go, too close is still too close.
its a pain on the motorway actually. when they have those distance markers on them, i stick too them... the amount of times I AM overtaking vehicles but am keeping my distance whilst doing it, i get some nitwit in their posh car trying to climb into my boot flashing lights at me, or will attempt to undertake me then cut me up.

i have sometimes been tempted to brake........ but if i did it could cause a major accident.
 
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Thekwango said:
right in the post you quoted i've said that speed may not be the cause, but once a car crash occurs the outcome of that crash is heavily influenced by the speed at which the crash occurred.
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ah yes you did.. sorry long day..... but the thing is, it is (almost) always the speed which gets mentioned..... I do not know a single person who has been done for tail gating, and yet they routinely do it. i find it hard to believe a copper, be it marked or unmarked has never spotted them. (my wife was bloody terrible for it, i found being a passenger with her a horrible experience, and yet she was constantly moaning at me for driving too fast when i drove)

thankfully she has backed off - and i have slowed down so a win for both of us i guess
 
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Haggisman said:
I'm not sure you're actually disagreeing with me :p
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possibly not, but it is just frustrating that it always the "speeding" which gets the blame.

I have never driven on an autobahn.... but a few German colleagues have said british drivers are some of the worst they have ever seen, for blindly wandering all over the road, or not signalling, or driving too close.
they claim (I cant really say for sure as like i said no experience) that even in the unrestricted parts of the autobahn they feel safer than they do on our motorways.
 
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Thekwango said:
how so? you trying to tell me that driving faster doesn't equal a higher risk of a crash being fatal should one occur?
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You are transfixed on the debate you want to have.

If speed is the key issue in safety, what is your view on air travel with their crazy 500+ mph cruising speeds.
 
Thekwango said:
ive said multiple times my argument isn't that we drive a 2mph. and i'm not making an argument. i'm stating a fact, the speed the car is travelling at when an accident occurs (even if speed isn't a factor in causing the actual accident) will almost always have a direct effect on the seriousness of the any injuries.
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So you actually want to be accepted as right on this point, that is your only point in this debate?

Each 1mph adds to the risk factor or death, that's your debate?
 
I've always thought the safest speed is the speed that requires the least amount of interactions with other cars ie go with the flow
 
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mattx4 said:
I've always thought the safest speed is the speed that requires the least amount of interactions with other cars ie go with the flow
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I dunno I often find "the flow" is a bunch of people all trying to do something a little different causing some degree of chaos - I often hold back if I get to the lights on a multi-lane road at the same time as a load of other people and let them sort themselves out as generally I can then sail past most of them without hassle and those who drive a bit faster have pulled away.

It is actually ******* tragic how a mix of traffic can't smoothly handle a couple of traffic lights and 2 speed limit changes :s as per one place on my way to work.
 
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