Ticket Prices

Yeah I don't think it is a big concern, the fact of the matter is if teams aren't successful they will get lower gates anyway, so it is better to price out future generations of fans if that means bringing success in the here and now. I don't know what the has-beens charge but if you look at the average gates at places like Leeds, Wednesday, Forest, Blackburn etc they are well below capacity and that's because they aren't competitive any more at the top level. If teams get big gate receipts meaning they can afford big wages and get in the CL, that builds the fan base in itself even if it is armchair fans who buy merchandise and maybe end up attending matches when they are older. Take me for example as a child nobody in my family (parents, siblings, grandparents) really followed football so my only exposure was stuff like The Big Match on ITV. I didn't even start going to Premiership matches until after I finished uni. But they had still got me hooked despite me never attending matches as a kid. Besides, rich people often take their kids anyway so get them hooked and not only will they be paying top dollar for their seats they will also be bringing their families and filling up on prawn sandwiches etc.

Furthermore in the modern age you have to ask yourself how important bums on seats really are, it is more important to get the TV money in, and build yourself a global brand cashing in on foreign markets etc. People who think you should just be charging a tenner to get the 'real fans' in are not living in the real world, especially when FFP comes in it would be pretty stupid of teams like MU not to try and maximise their revenue so they can afford to spend more on wages and transfers.

Yes in the longer term if clubs aren't successful (they can't all be) then there may be dwindling gates and the need to cut prices, but that's the beauty of it, they can cut prices if they want to. Cash in while you can and adopt a fallback position later if necessary.
 
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Furthermore in the modern age you have to ask yourself how important bums on seats really are, it is more important to get the TV money in, and build yourself a global brand cashing in on foreign markets etc. People who think you should just be charging a tenner to get the 'real fans' in are not living in the real world, especially when FFP comes in it would be pretty stupid of teams like MU not to try and maximise their revenue so they can afford to spend more on wages and transfers.

Why aren't they living in the real world? German clubs charge considerably less than we do and their League is seemingly getting stronger over the last few years while ours is declining. You touch on it yourself - TV and commercial money is already becoming far more important to top clubs that gate receipts; especially non-premium seats (premium seats being your boxes, tickets that include access to lounge/bars etc).

No club is going to willingly charge less than what they know they can sell tickets for but if it was enforced on them - and I have no idea how enforceable it would be - then they'd have no choice, nor would they be at any disadvantage if it was done across the League.

How much would it cost clubs if, for example, they had to make 5,000 tickets (or a percentage of your capacity) available to under 18's at a cost of no more than £20?
 
Yeah I don't think it is a big concern, the fact of the matter is if teams aren't successful they will get lower gates anyway, so it is better to price out future generations of fans if that means bringing success in the here and now. I don't know what the has-beens charge but if you look at the average gates at places like Leeds, Wednesday, Forest, Blackburn etc they are well below capacity and that's because they aren't competitive any more at the top level. If teams get big gate receipts meaning they can afford big wages and get in the CL, that builds the fan base in itself even if it is armchair fans who buy merchandise and maybe end up attending matches when they are older. Take me for example as a child nobody in my family (parents, siblings, grandparents) really followed football so my only exposure was stuff like The Big Match on ITV. I didn't even start going to Premiership matches until after I finished uni. But they had still got me hooked despite me never attending matches as a kid. Besides, rich people often take their kids anyway so get them hooked and not only will they be paying top dollar for their seats they will also be bringing their families and filling up on prawn sandwiches etc.

Furthermore in the modern age you have to ask yourself how important bums on seats really are, it is more important to get the TV money in, and build yourself a global brand cashing in on foreign markets etc. People who think you should just be charging a tenner to get the 'real fans' in are not living in the real world, especially when FFP comes in it would be pretty stupid of teams like MU not to try and maximise their revenue so they can afford to spend more on wages and transfers.

Yes in the longer term if clubs aren't successful (they can't all be) then there may be dwindling gates and the need to cut prices, but that's the beauty of it, they can cut prices if they want to. Cash in while you can and adopt a fallback position later if necessary.

I haven't figured out if this is serious?

If it is I'd find it hilarious if some of the top teams found themselves in a similar situation as teams like Portsmouth, Doncaster, rangers or even better Gretna!
 
Why aren't they living in the real world? German clubs charge considerably less than we do

On average, German tickets aren't any cheaper. However, there's a greater spread of prices - the cheapest are much cheaper, the most expensive are more expensive.
 
German clubs are 51% fan owned aswell.....i think.

Not sure what the fuss is over £62, it isnt anything new and it costs around £60 at Chelsea.....
 
On average, German tickets aren't any cheaper. However, there's a greater spread of prices - the cheapest are much cheaper, the most expensive are more expensive.

I'm not sure where you've got that from. As of the other year match day revenue over here was worth ~£300m more per season than in Germany - an average of £15m per club less than in the Premier League.

On top of that, match day tickets supposedly double up as free train tickets to the game too.
 
Standing areas and cheaper tickets are the only way to rejuvenate the atmosphere at football clubs - coincidentally these two things can easily go hand in hand. Far too sensible an idea to be put into practice though.
 
I know but it won't happen because people are letting emotion get in the way of the debate. The opposition from the Hillsborough groups (who I regardless have a great deal of respect for) is completely misguided. No-one ever died from standing. People stand at gigs every night of the week in far more raucous crowds and no-one bats an eyelid.
 
I know but it won't happen because people are letting emotion get in the way of the debate. The opposition from the Hillsborough groups (who I regardless have a great deal of respect for) is completely misguided. No-one ever died from standing. People stand at gigs every night of the week in far more raucous crowds and no-one bats an eyelid.

Especially if safe standing is done properly.

Heard some of them say it is an insult to those who died, when really the fact more being done about making it safer is better than just abandoning it. Also like you said standing isn't the issue and nor was it that day.

I'm all for it, Anfield is crap when it isn't a night game or a big one.

I wish english stadiums could make noise like this, or at least anfield :p

 
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I can't ever see standing at Anfield and I'd be shocked if it's introduced in the Premier League again. It's not just the Hillsborough families that are against it, the FA and League are totally against it too.

It's a delicate issue. The safest way of watching a football match is sat down in an all seater stadium - which is why, although standing was not the cause of the Hillsborough tragedy, it wouldn't have occurred had there been all seater stadiums with allocated tickets. The flip side to that is that currently large amounts of supporters still stand and standing in current stadiums is more dangerous than in safe standing areas like you have in Germany.
 
If standing is done properly as it is in Germany then there is no difference in supporter safety between sitting and standing. Indeed, given that some fans stand persistently anyway making some areas of the stadium proper terraces would actually make it more safe. I've seen more than one person end up falling into the row below after a goal. That wouldn't happen with a safety rail, and if everyone is allocated a space as they are in Germany then controlling crowd numbers won't be an issue.

There were many, many failings at Hillsborough and saying it wouldn't have happened in an all-seater stadium totally underplays the massive negligence that actually caused it. Those really at fault shouldn't ever be allowed to think "yeah, I made the wrong decision but if people were sitting this wouldn't have happened."
 
I'm not saying standing in Germany isn't safe but no form of standing can ever be as safe as sitting. The FA and the PL want football to be family entertainment and with the amount of money in the game, can't afford any issues to ever arise. I'd be stunned if they allow standing again.

Re Hillsborough - I've not for one moment ignored all that happened that led to the disaster however, while standing wasn't the cause, had it been an all seater stadium with allocated seats then the situation that led to the majority of mistakes and therefore the disaster would have not occurred.
 
How much would it cost clubs if, for example, they had to make 5,000 tickets (or a percentage of your capacity) available to under 18's at a cost of no more than £20?

I can't answer that, but I do know that Arsenal have a designated family area where the tickets are cheaper and you can't buy tickets there (even when they are available) unless you are a registered family enclosure member bringing a child.
 
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