Time for fuel cell / hydrogen car?

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 09:34

Next car in 2 years' time will not be a diesel for sure.
Don't believe battery powered cars is the future unless there is a breakthrough in battery technology (I am sure there will be ways to charge them quicker but not sure if it will be possible to manufacture them in scale using abundant materials).

Is hydrogen the future then?

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 12:35

Jonnycoupe said:
Electrics cars are already on a journey of slow improvement.

Its fuel cell needs the breakthrough and they have batteries anyway.

</repeat of monthly EV/BEV/Electrification discussion>

Are you sure they need batteries?

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 12:39

MissChief said:
Hydrogen sounds great but transport and storage as well as refuelling are problems. Not insurmountable problems, but problems nevertheless.

I prefer this type of refuelling compared to chargers

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 12:52

Why do you need a battery and not a capacitor?

As for the amount of electricity needed for making hydrogen, with the abundance of renewables this is becoming irrelevant.

It is happening now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_renewable_electricity_production

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:23

Jonnycoupe said:
Yes because the fuel cell ramps up slower and you also need to take advantage of an EV powertrain which is regen braking !!

Same question - why not use a capacitor?

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:28

Jonnycoupe said:
No enough energy, its a power storage device. Probably need a little more than 'a capacitor'

There is enough energy and this is immediately available.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/superdielectrics-supercapacitor-electric-car-battery

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:30

Kenai said:
Hydrogen needs to face up to same sort of nonsense arguments that electric does, with little basis in reality, so on that front i'll offer up - what happens when my car explodes like the Hindenburg?
.

I am sure storing hydrogen has come a long way since then.

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:38

Jonnycoupe said:
Only thing i can see there is a static warehoouse size of capacitors to manage national grid inrush loads for fast charging a car - it then recharges from the grid between sessions to refill. 180Wh/Kg is about 5 years ago.

So enough energy or not?

More reading
https://interestingengineering.com/...replace-batteries-in-future-electric-vehicles

Ultracapacitors have a much higher power density than batteries. This makes them ideal for high-drain applications like powering an electric vehicle.

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:47

Kenai said:
How do we get all this hydrogen too, bet that's environmentally damaging.

Did you miss the bit about using renewables only?

This is not bad and covers some of the basic arguments

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:47

Jonnycoupe said:
Its interesting, let me know when they have got the engineering bit covered.

With Tesla buy Maxell for there coating tech we might find out more Sept 22.

It is covered already. Remember we are not talking about capacitor-only vehicles.

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 13:53

Jonnycoupe said:
Honestly its not. Google will only get you so far.

I am sure capacitors already exist

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 14:11

Kenai said:
I've seen it before but ultimately, going back to your OP on an actual serious note, hydrogen fuel cells are not in a position to be the better alternative to electric when you buy a car in 2 years time - FCEVs still need some big breakthroughs to catch up to BEVs and even if they happen in the next 2 years, they won't hit the mainstream in that time frame.

Then ultimately once you reach that point, you'll be dealing with similar FUD to BEVs now, as my posts above allude to.[/MEDIA]

[/QUOTE]

What breakthroughs are you referring to? There is a refuelling station near my work place, I can refuel in 5 min and range is more than enough.

ver01@ · 14 Sep 2020 at 14:38

I am not buying now and in two years many of the issues we are discussing here may be irrelevant.
Cost is not a prohibiting factor now so don't expect it to be in two years. As long as the hydrogen is produced from renewable energy sources only, a FCEV will be my preferred option.

ver01@ · 15 Sep 2020 at 06:54

Don't think fossil fuels will be with us for very long. Energy independence is becoming a priority.

ver01@ · 15 Sep 2020 at 18:03

Journey said:
What? The video has factual information surrounding how fuel cells are made, how they can be made and used in industries other than cars, and how they are not yet efficient enough.

Also, let me guess though, you dislike Tesla "because"

How is efficiency relevant when you have an energy source that is so abundant?

ver01@ · 15 Sep 2020 at 18:14

Journey said:
The OP should watch this video.

Will see if i can find a video of him outlining the limitations and sustainability of battery powered vehicles.

ver01@ · 15 Sep 2020 at 18:46

How much recyclable are batteries of today's EV's?

ver01@ · 15 Sep 2020 at 20:42

McPhee said:
You need infrastructure to harvest and transport that energy.

Let's take one point at a time.

What do you mean by infrastructure? There are already simple autonomous hydrogen production systems that can be installed anywhere.

ver01@ · 16 Sep 2020 at 06:20

Jonnycoupe said:
Okay so if that was the case (which it isn’t) then you now have only caught up with generating hydrogen

Why are you saying that autonomous hydrogen production systems don't exist?

ver01@ · 16 Sep 2020 at 07:05

Jonnycoupe said:
It was the ‘simple’ part you omitted from what I comment on.

The onus of proof lies not with I.

Is having electricity and water complicated :confused:

Plug&Play

https://www.itm-power.com/hgas1se