Time is bonkers

LOAM · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:41

Sorry for bonkers / philosophical thread on a Monday, but over the weekend I heard on the TV the old question “if a tree falls down and there’s no one to hear it, does it make a sound”. Now I’ve never really paid a great deal of thought to it but as I was bored it led to me think of my own perception of time. As expected I have no recollection of time prior to being born and despite billions of years passing the first I knew of anything was sometime 38 and a bit years ago.

Obviously this lead me to consider death and how obviously I will not perceive any of that either, thus I will once again be outside of time. In turn this lead me to wonder if the universe would cease to exist with me, as my perception of time would be zero and thus infinite then surely it must. The only way it could not cease would be if I was reborn and started to perceive time again (I don’t want to get into re-incarnation though). I realise that the universe wont cease to exist for everyone else but as I will have no reference points between the time of death and the end of the universe (even if that is infinite: S ) then surely it must cease to exist with my death.

Again sorry, not wanting to start a LOLoam thread and not really sure why I posted it, but it bent my mind on a hot Sunday afternoon.

Edrof · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:44

Time spent at my mother-in-law's feels loooooong.
Time spent playing games and surfing feels shoort.

Time = weird.

jp_bl_68 · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:46

LOAM said:
I realise that the universe wont cease to exist for everyone else but as I will have no reference points between the time of death and the end of the universe (even if that is infinite: S ) then surely it must cease to exist with my death.

I'm confused by this :confused:

LOAM · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:54

jp_bl_68 said:
I'm confused by this

Well because for me (being dead and outside of time) there can be no perceivable sense of getting from A. my death to B. the end of the universe. In the same way I didn’t perceive the universe prior to being born.

Dave M · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:55

If a tree falls in a wood with nobody to hear it does not make a sound, it does however cause vibrations in the air.

jp_bl_68 · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:57

LOAM said:
Well because for me (being dead and outside of time) there can be no perceivable sense of getting from A. my death to B. the end of the universe. In the same way I didn’t perceive the universe prior to being born.

The universe ceases to exist as far as you're concerned, I suppose.

platypus · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:57

I suppose one could argue that their own personal universe does indeed cease to exist.

OriginalJonty · 27 Jun 2011 at 10:59

The universe won't cease to exist. Your perception of it will.

Haggisman · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:01

I'm sure there's a theory on this, that in fact nothing is real, and everything we see, touch, hear etc, everyone we speak to, is all just a figment of our own imagination, I just can't remember what it's called XD

LOAM · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:04

OriginalJonty said:
The universe won't cease to exist. Your perception of it will.

This is the bit that bends my mind. And its probably because I’m thinking of it as still being able to perceive what’s going on. But because I (being dead) would basically be at the end of the universe, then so must everyone else. Unless, like I said above the period of non perception was interrupted by a period of perception (ie being born).

I carried on with the whole thought and came to a point where I wondered if being reincarnated was almost a given, baring in mind that I have infinite time to play with then how likely is it that the correct chemical mixture ocurrs and I begin to perceive again. It all went funny at this point when I started to wonder if time not being particularly linear meant I could pop up into a perceived state anywhere along the “line”

Maybe it was sunstroke.

TheMightyTen · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:05

Everything is measurement within a frame of reference, time being one of those and from certain philisophical stand points using your existence as the frame of reference the universe could be said to exist only in the period of your conception to your death because after your death the frame of reference is no longer valid.

Bumhug · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:39

Does time exist though?

Time is just a man made thing to count the earth rotating around the sun. Our whole perception of time is based around 1 planet out of billions circling round 1 star out of billions. In the future mankind will look back at us and laugh.

When you die the earth will still go round the sun just as it did before you were born

Brian8bit · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:45

I hate thinking about time... it boggles the mind.

RomanNose · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:49

Isn't this guy the only person in this universe who is allowed to say bonkers?

jp_bl_68 · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:50

LOAM said:
This is the bit that bends my mind. And its probably because I’m thinking of it as still being able to perceive what’s going on. But because I (being dead) would basically be at the end of the universe, then so must everyone else. Unless, like I said above the period of non perception was interrupted by a period of perception (ie being born).

I carried on with the whole thought and came to a point where I wondered if being reincarnated was almost a given

I used to think like that. I came to the conclusion that it was all about my ego. I just couldn't understand that there would be a time when I would cease to exist yet everything else would carry on as normal.

Once I abandoned the idea of a soul (or a permanent-self) and accepted that I'm just a collection of muscles responding to various stimuli, just another lump of meat slowly reaching its use by date, it became easier to accept that when my life ends the universe will carry on as usual.

Tefal · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:50

LOAM said:
Sorry for bonkers / philosophical thread on a Monday, but over the weekend I heard on the TV the old question “if a tree falls down and there’s no one to hear it, does it make a sound”. Now I’ve never really paid a great deal of thought to it but as I was bored it led to me think of my own perception of time. As expected I have no recollection of time prior to being born and despite billions of years passing the first I knew of anything was sometime 38 and a bit years ago.

Obviously this lead me to consider death and how obviously I will not perceive any of that either, thus I will once again be outside of time. In turn this lead me to wonder if the universe would cease to exist with me, as my perception of time would be zero and thus infinite then surely it must. The only way it could not cease would be if I was reborn and started to perceive time again (I don’t want to get into re-incarnation though). I realise that the universe wont cease to exist for everyone else but as I will have no reference points between the time of death and the end of the universe (even if that is infinite: S ) then surely it must cease to exist with my death.

Again sorry, not wanting to start a LOLoam thread and not really sure why I posted it, but it bent my mind on a hot Sunday afternoon.

Go watch darkstar one.

Vonhelmet · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:55

Forde said:
Time spent at my mother-in-law's feels loooooong.
Time spent playing games and surfing feels shoort.

Time = weird.

Einstein said:
Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. THAT'S relativity.

Skillmister · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:55

Forde said:
Time spent at my mother-in-law's feels loooooong.
Time spent playing games and surfing feels shoort.

Time = weird.

12 hours in a car going on holiday = fuuuuuuuuuuuuuu feels like a year
12 hours accidentally spent gaming = where the hell did the day go

:cool:

LOAM · 27 Jun 2011 at 11:58

Well, Its true that its down to perception. If you consider person A. who is in a deep dreamless state, this is akin to being dead as far as time perception is concerned and person B. An insomniac.

In the morning 8am is 8am for both of them despite person A having no perception of the passing of the time.

This is what lead me to wonder if on death the universe ended, because having no concept of the passing of time would mean that you would have to be at the end of time. Like above 8am is 8am for everyone (metaphorically speaking).

like I said probably sunstroke.

Edit;
I’m not approaching this from an “zomg the universe revolves round me” egotistical stand point. It was merely something that occupied my mind yesterday whilst I recovered (hay fever) from a couple of hours filling a wheely bin with bits of garden.

FutileBreadMachine · 27 Jun 2011 at 12:21

jp_bl_68 said:
I used to think like that. I came to the conclusion that it was all about my ego. I just couldn't understand that there would be a time when I would cease to exist yet everything else would carry on as normal.

Once I abandoned the idea of a soul (or a permanent-self) and accepted that I'm just a collection of muscles responding to various stimuli, just another lump of meat slowly reaching its use by date, it became easier to accept that when my life ends the universe will carry on as usual.

Thank you. I hate it when people get philosophical since they think they are so important when really we're all organic machines. When you go to sleep you lose conciousness and it's no big deal, we do it every day. The same will occur with death, except we won't wake up. Everyone else will carry on living their lives, and the universe will continue for billions of years, and it will be as though you never existed.