Titanic submersible confirmed destroyed with loss of all five souls onboard.

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The implosion would ejected fragments all over the place, so not everything turns to dust. Human remains too apparently :/

A steel ball implosion didn't rebound in this video: https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsi...hjy/implosion_of_a_steel_ball_under_pressure/

But yeah, the Titan would likely have shattered, not even fully compressing down to its minimum size before doing so. In a steel vessel I think its the metal that would crush you as it deforms, squashing you into mush. In this vessel I reckon it would have been a bombardment of chunks of high velocity carbon fibre and water. Its possible that in this shrapnel situation that identifiable chunks of human parts did remain.

 

[danlightbulb]

Looks like the front section with the window is still intact but the whole glass section is gone. So not sure if it glass was knocked out or it was part of the impulsion itself.

Probably designed to resist external force in (it was curved outwardly). When the main shell imploded it would have reversed the force on the window maybe to an inside out force, and popped it out. That's my guess.

 

[danlightbulb]

A leak at the joint at the rear cap could slowly fill the area under the flat floor and it would add substantial extra weight to the sub before it became apparent to the users inside.

Also a leak starting at shallow levels could then fail catastrophically as it sank deeper as the increasing pressure started acting on the joint face.

If there was a leak internally, sufficient to add a few hundred kilos to the vessel (we don't know it's buoyancy characteristics), then the air inside the vessel would start to be compressed and the vessel crew would have felt it on their ears.

I don't personally think an internal leak is feasible.

 

[danlightbulb]

Isn't a submersible... supposed to freefall?

Yeah the supposed transcript that came out a few days ago implied the rate of descent was too fast, but those (alleged) messages weren't panicked. So there is a mismatch there.

 

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They showed the banging sound (I agree, a bit foreboding), but they didn't show the sound of the implosion that the Navy detected which is annoying.

 

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Was it on a graph ?

Actually it was!

 

[danlightbulb]

It strikes me that that Stockton Rush was an absolute idiot. A businessman, who failed to listen to others, and formed conclusions that he was simply not qualified to form. I mean, seriously, any idiot would know that carbon fibre is not suitable for the job, and even if someone didn't know that, there are plenty of warnings out there from a community that surely does. He was an arrogant fool who cost the lives of the people who trusted him.
If I sound angry, I am. I am tired of businessmen not taking science seriously.

Question for me is, in the case of the above, how this guy even got going? Did he have existing money or was just a huge BS'er? And once the shoddiness was revealed, how did it continue?

 

[danlightbulb]

I suppose it brings up the question, if someone asks you to sign a disclaimer, should you sign it without conducting your own research in to the safety of the product? And if you do sign it, who's to blame? The company of idiots or the idiot that signed the form?

Not sure but there are (presumably) international maritime safety standards? Its amazing that the authorities didn't somehow detect the issues here sooner and then block the activity.

 

[danlightbulb]

Operating in international waters so (deliberately) outside the national maritime regulations. Apparently the titanium domes were only rated for 1000m and the sub planned to go down 4000m, they offered to make them rated to the higher spec/depth but Stockton said nah, don't need that and didn't tell the passengers either. Even the sub complete with vunerable carbon fibre hull was left outside in all weathers during the winter in the prior season

There must still be rules though? Like you can't take someone out to international waters and kill them, it's still murder somehow there must be an international agreement that operates all round the world. Or, I couldn't just go and build a nuclear reactor in international waters to get around any safety regulations (I assume).

 

[danlightbulb]

Surely Tony Nissen is at the very least guilty of being complicit to Stockton Rush to cutting corners and deliberately withholding information and certification that could have protected and saved lives. He seems to have brushed and blamed everything on Stockton alone. Also where the heck is Stockon's wife and the other 2 Oceangate heads that supported Stockton.

Still another week to go I think. Is there a schedule for who is appearing when?

 

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This former co founder guy sure does like to waffle with his answers

Yeah I'm not sure I see the value of interviewing someone who left OceanGate in 2015 or something. Why have they not brought in all the employees who were actually on the ship at the time of the tragedy or those who were actually involved in the design or construction of the vessel eg Boeing or the actual design engineers/testers.

Also didn't the US navy detect the sound of an implosion on its underwater monitoring grid. Why aren't they interviewing someone about that.

 

[danlightbulb]

One of the reasons they'll interview people from say 2015 is because it helps create a record of the background of the company and how it dealt with things. For example if they can show that the safety issues were known about, or that the company was dodgy safety tests and ignoring warnings going back 10 years it's much more serious than "oh we had something unexpected happen without any warnings".
Especially if it shows a pattern of the company trying to cover up problems, or silence and force out staff who raised concerns.

Agree but they seem to be interviewing far more ex employees than ones who were actually at the incident or were current employees.

Thats what i have been asking as well but i thought i read they refused the attend the Hearing (not sure if they were subpoenaed) and possibly pled the 5th?!!. Stockton's wife was 2nd in OG and there was 2 other heads as well that helped run through what they were doing. All are not present for the hearing. Tony Nissen was the only person so far to appear. He was definitely complicit in hiding the facts from questions and concerns imo. dont think all their claims working with Boeing and Nasa etc was actually true.

Is it not a proper legal investigation then? They should force people to attend or hold an actual criminal investigation.

did but kept it classified. According to James Cameron they were just following procedure and were not allowed to release it until they completed their investigations. In his opinion that gave people false hope and prolonged their loss because he knew what that explosion meant and were most likely killed.

Yes so has this now been released and discussed in the investigation? I haven't heard it.

Whole thing seems weak. You have people sitting there in military gear yet not interviewing people who had the authority on the actual expedition.

 

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Pretty damning, Amber Bay former director of adminstration for OG. Got asked "Are missions specialist paying passenger" she replied no.

So despite riding like passengers, pay a extortionate amount as a passenger and have no experience at all in deep sea submersible or your project. They still are not passengers, Gotcha. This was Stockton and OG way of circumventing passenger safety and regulations ??

The other participants have all been asked the same question and the ones Ive seen have pretty much said yes.

 

[danlightbulb]

The guy being interviewed now basically said they used mission specialist as a way to skirt regulations, with everything coming out, I can't see how there isn't legal action after this investigation concludes

Is there any money left in the company though? If not there is nothing to go after. There might be criminal prosecutions options on maybe a very small number of individuals but that wouldn't be for the deaths directly, only the skirting issues around process and payment.