TKD newbie, would like a bit of guidance...

jon86

jon86

jon86

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CKD newbie, would like a bit of guidance...

Hi.

I recently joined a great gym and I am looking to start a CKD diet. I have done some calculations and this is what I think I need. It seems like a lot to me but I am a fair bit overweight (223 lbs) and am 6'4".

Protein - 168.6g
Protein calories - 674 cal
'Maintenance calories' (weight in lbs * 15 - 500) - 2845 cal
Fat calories - 2171 cal
Fat - 241.2g

I am going to go to the supermarket soon and I'd love for someone to make a very quick rough diet. Although the diet requires a lot of fat and protein (from meat etc), is it possible to somehow keep the cost down?

Thank you so much. GordyR's guide was so helpful, as was reading the Keto diet thread.

Jon
 
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eat cheap meat, add in whey shakes as frankly, whey in bulk is cheap( 10lbs/4.5kg is £30) with 30grams a shake thats 4500/30 =150 shakes for £30, 20p a shake, will increase a touch tbh, flavouring and milk/soya milk(fantastic for keto diets, incredibly low carb, good fats(though not much) and tastes good(alpro soya light ;) ) but don't get alternative to milk soya drinks taste like poo) . so you end up looking at more per shake, but thats a couple "meals" a day, with a few omega 3 caps along with it, or flaxseed powder in the shake for very little and is high quality protein.

To be honest, I found that once you hit keto your body gets very very good at eating body fat, which to a certain degree ofsets(by quite a large amount) how many calories you need to be eating, I'm eating around the 1300-1600calorie mark with similar supposed maintainance needs as you and feeling very good and energetic with it. The key is, IMHO anyway, that as you eat less food than a normal diet, you're going to have a tough time making all the substances in the required quantities to keep body fat burning going. This is where l-carnitine, Co10 Enzyme, a decent multivit, a b-complex vitamin, omega 3 fats, all come in to help support burning fat.

You can try to eat that much, but to be honest I think you'd find it very very hard. You'll find after several days on the diet and moving into ketosis your hunger could(probably would) dry up significantly, because fat/protein basically tell your brain you're full up, while carbs essentially help do the opposite. Some days I can barely get 1000calories down before I feel completely unable to eat more, but I don't get tired, or hungry, those days I think I just happen to burn more body fat and need less food.


THere are so many sites to check for ideas for food, but essentially, meat, or other cheaper protein sources and high quality fats. I'm a vege so not much help with suggesting meals though I gather meat + veg, not sure on quantities and not to familiar with percentages of protein/fat in different meats.

ANyway give it a try and see how much you can eat, everyones different so will have to try it and adjust it as you need.
 
Thanks very much drunkenmaster. I went to ASDA today and bought some cheap good quality meat (ASDA Extra Special beefburgers, ASDA bacon etc), eggs, cheese, nuts and vegetable oil. Could you explain what you mean and suggest when you say 'l-carnitine, Co10 Enzyme, a decent multivit, a b-complex vitamin, omega 3 fats'.

Thanks again. :)
 
basically some supplements, those ones you can usually find very cheap and affordable. L-carnitine and Co10Enzyme are both things your body uses in the process of turning fat into energy and basically lacking any one thing can somewhat halt the process. I'm not claiming that they massively increase your fat burning ability, no labels on the side to say "lose 300lbs in 5 days" (only cremation is that good for weight loss :p ) but I see it as giving your body everything it needs to go along at its most efficient.

Then again, because you're eating less, a multivitamin won't hurt , omega 3 fats are the essential fats that your body can't live without. Generally our diets, and specifically our foods have much lower levels of the omega fats, specifically omega 3, than was in food even 100 years ago. omega 3 is the main substance your brain is made of, and is used in a couple thousand different processes in the body. Whatever your diet is, more omega 3 is always good, flaxseed oil tablets, or fish oils(not cod liver, as you those are for limited use) have good omega 3 levels in and are really the only sources. You get small amounts in soy milk, egg's but not a huge level. So also remember to eat fish several times a week, someone else can probably let you know which are the best quality ones, other than "the oily ones" i have no clue again due to being a vegetarian.

Then another thing to have ontop of all of that is a b-complex vitamin, again all the vitamin b's (6/12/5 and others) are used in the process of producing energy and so again are useful to make sure you get plenty of.

Fish oils i think you can get cheaply several places (myprotein.co.uk is great for whey protein powder, other proteins, fish oil, vitamins).

eggs, cheese, nuts, all good in general. Nuts are a great thing to eat, pinenuts are especially chock full of omega fats(ones listed as polyunsaturates are the omega group, saturated and monosaturated aren't bad for you but they aren't really good for you either, but polyunsaturates are the key things to look for in the nutritional info).
Hard cheeses are where its at for low carb in general, though things like philidelphia are low carb too and pretty decent for you. Most softer cheeses are pretty high carb though.
 
drunkenmaster said:
basically some supplements, those ones you can usually find very cheap and affordable. L-carnitine and Co10Enzyme are both things your body uses in the process of turning fat into energy and basically lacking any one thing can somewhat halt the process. I'm not claiming that they massively increase your fat burning ability, no labels on the side to say "lose 300lbs in 5 days" (only cremation is that good for weight loss :p ) but I see it as giving your body everything it needs to go along at its most efficient.

Then again, because you're eating less, a multivitamin won't hurt , omega 3 fats are the essential fats that your body can't live without. Generally our diets, and specifically our foods have much lower levels of the omega fats, specifically omega 3, than was in food even 100 years ago. omega 3 is the main substance your brain is made of, and is used in a couple thousand different processes in the body. Whatever your diet is, more omega 3 is always good, flaxseed oil tablets, or fish oils(not cod liver, as you those are for limited use) have good omega 3 levels in and are really the only sources. You get small amounts in soy milk, egg's but not a huge level. So also remember to eat fish several times a week, someone else can probably let you know which are the best quality ones, other than "the oily ones" i have no clue again due to being a vegetarian.

Then another thing to have ontop of all of that is a b-complex vitamin, again all the vitamin b's (6/12/5 and others) are used in the process of producing energy and so again are useful to make sure you get plenty of.

Fish oils i think you can get cheaply several places (myprotein.co.uk is great for whey protein powder, other proteins, fish oil, vitamins).

eggs, cheese, nuts, all good in general. Nuts are a great thing to eat, pinenuts are especially chock full of omega fats(ones listed as polyunsaturates are the omega group, saturated and monosaturated aren't bad for you but they aren't really good for you either, but polyunsaturates are the key things to look for in the nutritional info).
Hard cheeses are where its at for low carb in general, though things like philidelphia are low carb too and pretty decent for you. Most softer cheeses are pretty high carb though.
Click to expand...

You should give out your MP referral code with your posts mate, if I wasn't already a member of MyProtein I'd have thanked you in such a fashion for your apparent endless knowledge in the keto diet and giving it up willingly.

I too am trying out a Ketogenic diet, although cyclic rather than targeted due to the fact that I'd miss my carbs at weekends ;)

Currently 3 days in and feeling a bit lethargic and lacking the energy to hit the gym. I've went from a high carb bulking diet to a <30g/day cutting diet without any tapering so I imagine I'll suffer and it'll take a while to hit Ketosis? Is <30g overkill for me at 15 stone, 6 foot, quite lean (slight love handles, top abs visible)?

Do you know anything about MCT's? I've been drinking coconut milk as part of my diet (goddamn gorgeous with chocolate flavoured whey, satisfys my sweet tooth) but I heard somewhere that medium chain triglycerides can be confused for carbohydrates by your body therefore being anti-ketosis?

Any clues on polyol carbs (from chewing gum etc) in the same respect as MCT's?

As for the oily fish you mentioned, kippers are the cheapest bang for buck that I've found. But if you can't stand them salmon (expensive), mackerel, sardines etc
 
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coconut milk, actually, coconut oil is highly recommended, I'm not to sure on the milk version but lots of people like adding coconut oil to shakes and cooking in it. Personaly I can't even slightly stand coconut in any form so not paid to much attention to the info on it :p

Polyols are alcohol sugars basically. I'm actually not 100% sure what the deal is. They are supposed to be less absorbed than normal carbs and aren't supposed to give much of a insulin response. but they are claimed to be 2calories per gram instead of the usual 4cals/g like "normal" carbs. So i'm not sure if its less calories, because you only absorb roughly half of them, and so you get half the normal insulin response. Or if the calories is simply a measure and you won't absorb much at all so won't insulin response.

But those are a couple things I think I'm trying to avoid because the info is fairly conflicting, and in higher quantities they tend to cause most people stomach problems so avoiding is probably best altogether.

If you've gone very high carb to very low in a day you'll likely have quite high reserves and take a while to cross over to ketosis, aswell as taking a while from then for your body to get used to ketones as a energy source. Cycling for a few days at a time seems to work well to get your body used to them before you try longer. Exercise and burning up those carbs will help quicken the process, and once you are somewhat depleted you can drop out of ketosis with a fairly small amount of carbs, but as you'll use them and not store much, getting back to ketosis again will be far far easier that next time.

I think the exact amount of carbs you want to have are very variable, level of activity, how you eat, etc, etc. I'm about as inactive as you get right now, yet I seem to be able to get away with quite a lot of carbs. Obviously the carbs you do have, the lower GI the better, and the more you can get away with the longer they take to burn up.

Though saying that I've been having trouble dropping back into ketosis after the last week of bad eating, or just more carb loading eating. Been trying the last few days but my hunger seems to have come back from being on carbs for a whole week, and finding it harder to not sneak carbs last couple days. :(
 
I am actually on CKD, started today. :) The main thing I am struggling with is eating enough fat. I had bacon and eggs for breakfast, egg omelette with spinach, cheese and bacon for lunch, peanuts in the afternoon and chicken, cheese, broccoli and cauliflower and a bit of garlic mayonnaise for dinner. Will have a protein shake before I go to bed tonight.

Is it ok to not hit your protein and fat targets? I am finding I can only eat so much grease before I feel full and a little bit sick. I think it might be good to get some flaxseed capsules. Is that what people use?

Thanks. :)
 
Are any of you guys still on CKD/TKD or other Keto diet currently?

I've recently started and wondering how good progress has gone with cutting down the fat, coping with the diet etc.
 
been on and off, mostly off, birthday when lovely, yet utterly retarded family bought me loads of chocolate and a massive, but fantastic cake which took a week to get through. Plus small surgical procedure on my feet and I just wasn't in the mood for being on my feet cooking much so pretty much been eating a crappy high-ish carb diet, ie pasta, bread and easy to make things. :(

I think i lost about 3.5 stone or so in the first 3-3.5 months, then I've had about 2 months eating crap, also managed to get very ill in the middle of all that and couldn't shake it for a few weeks. So the last 2 months have sucked on a carb diet, still been losing but not really sure how much. Probably around 3/4 stone, gonna be getting back into ketosis from tomorrow hopefully, will see where I am when the water weight drops off again.

I just felt healthier on ketosis and had it not been surgery and relying on family meals which aren't particularly great i'm fairly certain I would have lost more. Gonna see how much more weight I can shift by x-mas. If i do well I might be pretty close to my target weight by then.
 
3 months is a fair bit of time to be on this, and 3.5 stone is a fair bit to lose in that time, not bad at all ! I'm only looking to lose maybe a stone to reduce bodyfat, so I'd probably be staying on it for around a month?

I started on Monday and I'm in ketosis now , felt a bit iffy for a day or 2 but now I feel fine :)

One thing I can't seem to be able to do is keep my blood sugar level up during the night, last 2 days I dropped low during the night, so might need a small amount of low GI carbs like oats or so before to stop this from happening.
 
This is impressive reading fellas, well done :)

Can someone take the time out to post a diet for a week of food and break it down by calorific information please? e.g. kcals, protein, fats etc.

Also, what supplements you have been taking and what you found to be effective.

Cheers, and keep it up! :)
 
I haven't been going for a whole week yet, but to give an example here is one day of the diet - I'll have more records once I've done this diet for a bit longer - looking at previous threads for info drunkenmaster is your man, seems to know a lot about keto diets.

Meal Kcal Protein Fat Carbs
Bacon Rashers x 3 210/13.95/16.95 0
4 x Eggs 600/60/44.8/0
Brazil Nuts 50g 348.5/8.15/34.1/1.45
Smoked Mackerel 120g 370.8/22.44/29.52/3.96
Sirloin Steak 200g 402/43.2/25.4/0
Walnuts 50g 342/7.5/32.5/3.85
Totals 2273.3/155.24/183.27/9.26

A few extra carbs for vegs which I haven't put down.

The guide I used to work out calories etc. was :

1g/Protein per lbs of lean mass
Fat to make up rest of calorie requirements for each day

My diet above is based on calorie deficit of 500 from maintenance.

Edit : I'll be coming up to my first carb up day tomorrow so I can carb up Friday/Saturday, but am unsure as to how many calories I should be eating then, and how many from carbs/fat so can't help on that, yet !
 
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Looking forward to some carbs tomorrow evening - although I feel a lot more energetic than yesterday - realised I ate a bit too much today .

I thought your hunger is supposed to go decrease after being in ketosis? I'm still as hungry as ever :p
 
I can eat carbs later today, looking forward to it - my weight loss seems to have made progress but unsure how much of that is just due to less water retention

03/11/2008 ??
04/11/2008 85.1
05/11/2008 83.8
06/11/2008 83.4
07/11/2008 82.7
08/11/2008 82.1
 
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