Tony Pulis: Players that dive should get a 3 match ban
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Interesting interview with the owner of SmartOdds and one of the founders of the NextGen series, Matthew Benham, basically asking for realism when tackling the diving issue (pun not intended...).
He said you can't have it both ways:
1) The British style of going in hard and nailing people in challenges, basically the "letting them know you're there" mentality which is enforced up and down the football league.
2) Then complaining about people going down easily, diving and making the most of challenges.
He believes it's either one of the other. Take a much less physical approach to the game and then diving will be less of an issue, or carry on being one of the most physical leagues around but then having to put up with the play-acting.
I'm not sure I necessarily agree. I watch League One football and the game is just as physical but there is a great deal less diving - but then again the nationalities represented at that level is far less than the Premier League, where there seems to be more of a problem.
Not an easy problem to sort out. If we implement diving bans we're just going to fall further behind other countries on an international level (but this doesn't bother me in the slightest!
)
He said you can't have it both ways:
1) The British style of going in hard and nailing people in challenges, basically the "letting them know you're there" mentality which is enforced up and down the football league.
2) Then complaining about people going down easily, diving and making the most of challenges.
He believes it's either one of the other. Take a much less physical approach to the game and then diving will be less of an issue, or carry on being one of the most physical leagues around but then having to put up with the play-acting.
I'm not sure I necessarily agree. I watch League One football and the game is just as physical but there is a great deal less diving - but then again the nationalities represented at that level is far less than the Premier League, where there seems to be more of a problem.
Not an easy problem to sort out. If we implement diving bans we're just going to fall further behind other countries on an international level (but this doesn't bother me in the slightest!
)
I hate divers and I also want it out of the game. I think refs just need to get tough and the message will get out there. If this means a few decisions made wrongly so be it, they can always appeal after the game. It all comes back to needing replays and TV to make decisions. Too much revolves around a human making decisions that are impossible to make accurately all the time. Refs have such a hard job honestly. They are not respected either. In rugby, refs are respected and obeyed. I don't care if it breaks up the game, games are long enough at 90 minutes to accommodate a 3rd umpire type setup. Something similar to Tennis would be appropriate where teams get 3 challenges per half. Sometimes they would not even be needed. If this came in, the ref might even want to refer to TV footage to be able to make a decision such as for offsides or goal line moments. The problem is, if someone is flagged offside and it wasn't, what do you then do as the moment has passed.
meanwhile..brendan rogers in a startling display of irony says his players may have to START diving as they are being treated unfairly
surely Brendan its because they already dive that they have the reputation?!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/27/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-luis-suarez
surely Brendan its because they already dive that they have the reputation?!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/sep/27/brendan-rodgers-liverpool-luis-suarez
Meanwhile someone jumps on a headline with out actually reading the quotes from Rodgers. Well done!
The original article below.
-----------------------------
Rodgers anger at ref calls
September 27, 2012
By Mike Whalley
Brendan Rodgers has complained to referees' boss Mike Riley after seeing a number of key decisions go against his Liverpool side this season.
PA Photos
Liverpool manager Brendan Rodgers wants to get more decisions from referees
• Lucas: Worst year of my life
• Sahin: Rodgers needs time
Rodgers' team have had three penalties given against them in five league games this season, in addition to receiving two red cards. The Liverpool manager is also annoyed that Luis Suarez has had two plausible penalty appeals rejected in their last two league games.
Suarez was booked for diving during a 1-1 draw at Sunderland two weeks ago after he seemed to be caught by John O'Shea, then had a penalty appeal rejected when Jonny Evans challenged him during Manchester United's 2-1 win at Anfield last Sunday.
"It's been a trend for me," Rodgers said. "I arrived here having worked at a big club before. I had four-and-a-half terrific years at Chelsea. And I'd certainly seen enough games at that level to see that sometimes the big clubs do get the decisions.
"I came here, to one of the biggest clubs in the world, and in my opening period, we haven't got a thing. So I just wanted to ask the question and put my point across. And Mike was excellent. He's doing a terrific job, because being head of the referees is not easy."
Rodgers called Riley on Thursday morning to voice his frustration at the standard of refereeing during Wednesday night's 2-1 Capital One Cup victory at West Brom.
He added: "I think Mike had been expecting me to call him a little bit earlier. It's just become obvious, especially after last night's game. Jordan Henderson had a horrendous challenge in the game last night and the player wasn't even booked.
"One of my young players, Andre Wisdom, made a really good tackle and won the ball, and got booked for it. And there have been a number of incidents. But I just said to Mike: 'Look, we have to be careful that we don't discourage players who try to respect the game'.
"We want to win the game, but we want to win it by fair means. To me, anyway, in this opening period of the season, that hasn't worked for us. We just need to be careful that getting the decision means diving on to the floor and rolling around, whereas if you try to stay on your feet, you may not. That was the point I was making to him."
Suarez has acquired a reputation for going to ground too easily since arriving in England from Ajax in January 2011. But Rodgers believes that reputation is unfair.
"I don't know what his reputation is with referees," he said. "But certainly from what I've seen so far, it doesn't look as if he's ever going to get a decision, and that's something that would bother me going forward.
"Luis Suarez went down away to Sunderland and it looked a clear penalty, and he ended up getting booked for it. Then last week in the Manchester United game, there was more contact in his case than in Antonio Valencia's case. Valencia gets a penalty and we get nothing but a hard luck story.
"But I'm sure that will change. That was my point to Mike."
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Associate
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I'm a Stoke fan and I agree with what Pulis is saying ... but the guy can't look down on people for cheating when he's applauding the fact that Crouch got away with a deliberate handball!
Maybe if there was a "cheating" ban that covers deliberate handballs (obviously difficult to enforce), diving and similar things it would drive this kind of behaviour away from the game!
I like the suggestion of giving the manager a couple of challenges per game, that would make the game fair and place some of the pressure on the manager rather than the ref!
Although Wenger would use his in the first 30 seconds of a game
Maybe if there was a "cheating" ban that covers deliberate handballs (obviously difficult to enforce), diving and similar things it would drive this kind of behaviour away from the game!
I like the suggestion of giving the manager a couple of challenges per game, that would make the game fair and place some of the pressure on the manager rather than the ref!
Although Wenger would use his in the first 30 seconds of a game
I'm a Stoke fan and I agree with what Pulis is saying ... but the guy can't look down on people for cheating when he's applauding the fact that Crouch got away with a deliberate handball!
Maybe if there was a "cheating" ban that covers deliberate handballs (obviously difficult to enforce), diving and similar things it would drive this kind of behaviour away from the game!
I like the suggestion of giving the manager a couple of challenges per game, that would make the game fair and place some of the pressure on the manager rather than the ref!
Although Wenger would use his in the first 30 seconds of a game
lol leave Wenger alone!
The Crouch handball made me lol when I watched his post match interview on MOTD. He was like "might have been a suspicion of handball there but, ya know we'll take it..." etc.
haha
EDIT: Stoke may not be pretty to watch, but Crouch and Walters = win. That's why I have them in my fantasy dream team despite being an Arsenal supporter.
Caporegime
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I'm actually disturbed as there is a story saying Suarez has said decisions go for you and against you, its part and parcel of the game, referees have split seconds to see it and decide and talking about it all does nothing. Which appears like he's saying, its okay, get on with the game, which is good to hear.
But as said, video replay is the only way forward.
THe biggest and really only stumbling block to better refs is the fact that they can only see it once, won't always even see it, and have to make a snap judgement, when the tackle can look completely different from another angle. The ONLY fix for this is video replays.
Till basically the vast majority of fans stop looking down their nose at the idea and everyone basically demands it, it won't happen.
What happened with goal mouth tech, what 2 years if that of the public going from "meh tech, weird" to "have to have it now" and they've started to implement it. Fifa will do what the fans want, till the fans all agree they want video replays, it won't happen, when they do it will, simple as that.
The technology to do it has been there for 20 years, the number of camera's has increased significantly and the ways in which we can get the video directly to the ref have improved dramatically. Don't even need to run over to the side to watch a screen for 30 seconds, can run around with a wirelessly streamed nexus or something if they really want to save those few seconds.
This is the biggest joke of it, it WILL be hilarious for 2-3 weeks, we'll have a freaking awesome 5 red cards, 12 penalties, 17-0 vs Stoke games, then... you know, footballers will simply stop cheating, completely. If everyone pulls shirts at a corner, manager throws a flag, ref gives penalty, maybe a red card. 2 weeks later, no one will pull shirts at corners, no one will dive, no one will do much of anything except play football.
When you won't get caught there is a huge upside to cheating, when everything gets caught, there is no upside, people won't do it. After a couple weeks, there will be so much less diving, so few dangerous tackles, so much less shoving at corners that we'll have less interuptions than we do today with all the players arguing with ref's at almost every single corner.
I'd love to see football without the nonsense, but retrospectively punishing one or two methods of cheating... while allowing all the rest is completely stupid.
But as said, video replay is the only way forward.
THe biggest and really only stumbling block to better refs is the fact that they can only see it once, won't always even see it, and have to make a snap judgement, when the tackle can look completely different from another angle. The ONLY fix for this is video replays.
Till basically the vast majority of fans stop looking down their nose at the idea and everyone basically demands it, it won't happen.
What happened with goal mouth tech, what 2 years if that of the public going from "meh tech, weird" to "have to have it now" and they've started to implement it. Fifa will do what the fans want, till the fans all agree they want video replays, it won't happen, when they do it will, simple as that.
The technology to do it has been there for 20 years, the number of camera's has increased significantly and the ways in which we can get the video directly to the ref have improved dramatically. Don't even need to run over to the side to watch a screen for 30 seconds, can run around with a wirelessly streamed nexus or something if they really want to save those few seconds.
This is the biggest joke of it, it WILL be hilarious for 2-3 weeks, we'll have a freaking awesome 5 red cards, 12 penalties, 17-0 vs Stoke games, then... you know, footballers will simply stop cheating, completely. If everyone pulls shirts at a corner, manager throws a flag, ref gives penalty, maybe a red card. 2 weeks later, no one will pull shirts at corners, no one will dive, no one will do much of anything except play football.
When you won't get caught there is a huge upside to cheating, when everything gets caught, there is no upside, people won't do it. After a couple weeks, there will be so much less diving, so few dangerous tackles, so much less shoving at corners that we'll have less interuptions than we do today with all the players arguing with ref's at almost every single corner.
I'd love to see football without the nonsense, but retrospectively punishing one or two methods of cheating... while allowing all the rest is completely stupid.
As you say, too much revolves around a split second decision by the ref which is precisely why retrospective action is needed. A ref won't be able to see every dive but the most blatant ones can be spotted afterwards (not saying it is easy to determine even with video evidence i.e. the difference between a dive and a natural fall). If the ref awards a penalty that can't be appealed after the game.
At the moment players do it as a calculated risk, the potential reward (typically winning a penalty) outweighs the worst case scenario punishment (yellow card from ref). If players could actually get banned for it based on evidence there would be a much greater deterrent. In fact, even if they are successful on the pitch and win the penalty, they could still get banned although the FA typically doesn't like to undermine decisions made by the ref.
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lol leave Wenger alone!
The Crouch handball made me lol when I watched his post match interview on MOTD. He was like "might have been a suspicion of handball there but, ya know we'll take it..." etc.
haha
EDIT: Stoke may not be pretty to watch, but Crouch and Walters = win. That's why I have them in my fantasy dream team despite being an Arsenal supporter.
Walters was a brilliant bit of business for £2.5 Million!
No they don't, referees are fully mike'd up nowadys and often have someone in their ear telling them what to do. You only have to look at Shelvey's sending off to see that, the 1st thing he does is get 'advice' from the 4th offical/linesman/3rd party.
Tis a good point, can't they just have a "panel" of "digital refs" that sit at each match watching live incidents on the cameras and instantly feed to refs the decision. Ok probably not a panel incase of conflicting opinions. But a 4th ref who sits in a box somewhere watching?
Not quite, but then what would someone who supports the 4th or 5th biggest club in London know about worldwide stature.
Quick edit, I mean 4th or 5th biggest team based in London, We've probably got more of a support from people living in the nations capitol than spurs
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We've probably got more of a support from people living in the nations capitol than spurs
more fool them
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