Too Much Power 'For The Road'

[rjk]

Hello Motors.

I have been recently thinking quite a bit about this and thought it may make for an interesting discussion point.

I have noticed more often that the term 'too much power for the road' is being used in car reviews and online critiques.

I feel that it has recently become more infrequently used on mental stuff so much and instead found its way onto things like the new 'Vette and M5.

Whilst nobody can deny that 600bhp+ road cars are impressive and perhaps a little too easy to get up to license losing speeds, my view is that an accelerator is modular and whilst a car may have silly power on tap, it is rare that most high power cars will see their full power band on a lot of journeys.

My point of discussion is as follows:
What do you consider to be too much for a road car?
Do you feel that it is more the responsibility of the manufacturer to dictate what power their vehicles make?
Is bhp/tonne more important and does it have a tangible effect on this discussion?
Is the availability of a lesser produced range topping model with mental power an important addition for a manufacturer still in these days of efficiency and alternative fuels?
Or are headline grabbing figures important factors in showing the engineering prowess of a marque.

Is the whole concept a load of rubbish made up by the motoring press?

Keen to hear your views.

 

[shauncr91]

There's no such thing as too much power, just a chassis/drivetrain that can't put it down in a reasonable fashion.

 

[tsinc80697]

This is my big thing against my current car, it's insanely quick, stupidly quick in fact. It's bloody awesome, for about 3 seconds, then I look down at the speedo…

Really do need to get it out on track over the next few months!

 

[panthro]

I felt my E92 M3 was too much for the road. I hardly ever managed to really put my foot down unless it was on a Sunday morning at 5am. It could put all it's power down with no problem at all; the only problem I had was finding somewhere to use the power.

My old E46 M3 and current Z4 35i on the other hand are in my opinion perfectly balanced in terms of power for the road; especially the Z4 with the DCT gearbox and wider torque band.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Slower cars can be more fun as being on the throttle for more than a few seconds feels 'better'. Also it tends to progressive driving on a spirited drive where you can drive with flow. Big power just turns into a pedal stomping exercise to shed the speed you have gathered. A slower car offers a bit more on the throttle time with the associated noise and a wider scope of throttle modulation for balancing through corners.

It's easy to lambast the phrase but IME it's carries weight.

 

[MagicBoy]

Maybe it's more of case of power to weight. 400bhp is more suitable in a two ton luxobarge than say a one ton Fiesta.

Is there really a need for a 730bhp Ferrari? Not really, it is faintly ridiculous for modern UK roads and it's highly unlikely you can use it safely on anything than a deserted A-road in the middle of nowhere at 6am on Sunday morning. On the flip side I'm not going to advocate the nanny state banning them or limiting the power.

 

[mccarf]

Honestly I found my 1.3 fiesta more fun on the roads than my octavia. I could push the fiesta quite hard and it would have to be pushed for ages to go into licence losing speed. If I didn't plan on going on track I think I'd be happy with an N/A 1.6 with about 100-120bhp in a mk1 focus sized car. I wouldn't say you "need" more than that if you aren't ever planning on taking it to a track.

 

[Clarkey]

Cars are more fun when you can give it the full beans and feel that rush. Whether you can do that on the road or not is not for me to decide though.

 

[Freefaller]

I'm of the view that the throttle works both ways.

Even a 70bhp motorbike can break the speed limits by so much as sneezing on the accelerator.

So should all bikes have a limit? No of course not, because you have to drive within the legal limits - if you want to get to 70mph in 2s there's no law against that really, as long as you do it with care and in control of the vehicle. IF you decide to go beyond 70mph then it's your prerogative and responsibility. (I'm saying 70mph for a 70mph piece of road not on road where the speed limit is less).

Also, some people enjoy track days. Perhaps a "high power" mode could be enabled solely for track days, but then people would just hack the system undoubtedly, and it wouldn't prevent older powerful cars from still being powerful outside of a track environment.,

People need to take responsibility for their actions.

I've got nearly 300bhp - it's far too much power for London and the UK. However, I know if I have to overtake I can do so quickly and in a gap that a slower car couldn't. Or I can accelerate away from a junction or danger zone more promptly. Having a more powerful car also means that the brakes generally are better as is the handling (in general) so effectively the car becomes safer.

People drive super cars in London and outside of London regularly, they exploit the power from time to time in strategic areas where the visibility is good, and they fancy a 2s blast... and then calm down. Heck a GTR will cruise along in town with no issues (other than being a little crashy) and yet it can get to 100 and back to 0 in less time than most cars can get to 60....

Ultimately though I think BHP/Tonne is far more interesting for car owners, that is where the real performance shows itself - going back to my bike example clearly demonstrates that. So if manufacturers were to limit the power, they'd focussing on lightening the cars again. It'll go full circle no doubt. Look at them now, cars are making sub 200bhp but they're doing it with 1.4L engines, and still returning 40mpg+ - so there's more of a focus on innovating with lower power, but higher percentage of output per litre. Chassis refinements are ever ongoing, as is the chase for economy.

Sometimes a slower car can be more fun to drive hard or on the limit as you're likely to be going slower and also there's less chance of it biting you as you have less power for it to give you a hiding.

 

[Janesy B]

The problem is even hot hatches like the Focus ST and Megane RS are too quick to enjoy on the roads without picking up licence losing speed - Hence the popularity of things like the new Fiesta ST and Clio 172-200 etc.

 

[86JR]

Slower cars are more fun. If I had to choose a fun car I would probably buy a 12v Vr6 golf; they sit in the shadow of an R32 ever since it was released due to being "too slow" but with 200hp with a few mods and a glorious v6 induction roar I don't see the point of any more power.

I did an overtake earlier where I overtook a tractor and calculated it was safe to overtake the car infront of it as well, unfortunatly he decided to drop a gear as he didnt want an audi to overtake him in his nissan micra, so it turned into a full throttle moment with traffic fastly approaching from the other direction; this is the only time I wish I had more power.

Then again a remap would solve it but really I don't need the speed and it is fun to drive hard and at the limits the rest of the car is designed for (brakes, suspension, etc).

I think if I had a 400+hp car I might take silly risks sometimes.

 

[BattFink]

(Sorry for the bike specific perspective but it's a lot transfers to the 4 wheel world)

Personally having ridden a motorbike with just under 400bhp (turbo'd hayabusa) on the road before, I'd probably say it was a little excessive. But at the end of the day it only delivers as much BHP as you allow it to.

The novelty of having a lot of power soon wore off for me, these days i'm rolling around on an R6 & an Aprilia RS250. The RS250 is so much more satisfying to ride on the road (when you're in the mood) as you have to cling on to every single rpm (pretty much no power below 7000rpm)

I personally don't feel it's the manufacturers responsibility at all, they've just become far too easy a target for any lazy journalist/solictor/legislator etc.. as being the irresponsible party when an individual screws up (or does something stupid).. show some responsibility people! From my point of view the same argument could be applied to firearms etc..

 

[Howard]

I did an overtake earlier where I overtook a tractor and calculated it was safe to overtake the car infront of it as well, unfortunatly he decided to drop a gear as he didnt want an audi to overtake him in his nissan micra, so it turned into a full throttle moment with traffic fastly approaching from the other direction; this is the only time I wish I had more power.
.

I really, really wish I could understand what goes through people's heads when they do this and how they justify it as rational thinking. Similarly people who purposely do their damnedest to block someone from zip-merging in traffic.


The general public are annoying.

 

[86JR]

He was annoying and trying to stop me coming back in, 2 paddle downshifts later I pulled into his lane about 5 car lengths infront of him so all it really did was lose me some more fuel...but why in the first place?

 

[rjk]

Slower cars can be more fun as being on the throttle for more than a few seconds feels 'better'. Also it tends to progressive driving on a spirited drive where you can drive with flow. Big power just turns into a pedal stomping exercise to shed the speed you have gathered. A slower car offers a bit more on the throttle time with the associated noise and a wider scope of throttle modulation for balancing through corners.

It's easy to lambast the phrase but IME it's carries weight.

I was hoping you would share your thoughts actually mate.

What considerations does Jaguar make when it comes to this sort of thing? Obviously, they never make a car for record breaking straight line or handling performance. Is the power of the more recent quick Jags a byproduct of the character that their cars are aimed to capture?

 

[allllec]

Slower cars can be more fun as being on the throttle for more than a few seconds feels 'better'. Also it tends to progressive driving on a spirited drive where you can drive with flow. Big power just turns into a pedal stomping exercise to shed the speed you have gathered. A slower car offers a bit more on the throttle time with the associated noise and a wider scope of throttle modulation for balancing through corners.

It's easy to lambast the phrase but IME it's carries weight.

I agree. To a degree..

While I think you are right I have found in my experience there are times in slower cars where I think "I wish I had more power right now" (Exiting any major A-Road roundabout for instance). I am bitterly disappointed with the lack of sensation of acceleration. This usually sticks with me for the remainder of said journey.

Now having a quick car I do not experience that, or any similar disappointment when driving. Even though you rightly say I perhaps would have more fun, at points(!), in a lesser powered car.

Does any of that make any sense to anyone but myself?

Kind Regards

Alec

 

[peterattheboro]

He was annoying and trying to stop me coming back in, 2 paddle downshifts later I pulled into his lane about 5 car lengths infront of him so all it really did was lose me some more fuel...but why in the first place?

If you're going to do this then use the lowest gear possible. Get passed quickly and safely and he wouldn't get a sniff in the first place

 

[geekman]

I really, really wish I could understand what goes through people's heads when they do this and how they justify it as rational thinking. Similarly people who purposely do their damnedest to block someone from zip-merging in traffic.


The general public are annoying.

I had a Citroen Relay van do this to me a few weeks back. I was in convoy with a GTR and a supercharged R8 and they didn't even notice he'd sped up. I still passed him easily but it was definitely a moment I'd have liked a few hundred more BHP.

 

[lemonade]

How much power is too much is relative to the car, for example 300bhp in a 1000kg supermini would be far too much, 300bhp in a 2 tonne large exec saloon would be adequate, but then again in a big car you wouldn't necessarily need so much power but require more torque to pull a heavy car.

I think there is far too much obsession with power, and the whole power arms race was started and is lead by German marques, it's like some sort of willy wave contest between the big three. Then the whole craze of remap and getting more power.

At the end of the day for daily driving having 300bhp is unnecessary, you are either not using anywhere near that sort of power, which makes it pointless or you are breaking the law.

I've personally always enjoyed 'lesser' powered cars, I have had more fun in a Cinqicento Sporting then some other hot hatches with 10x the power. I put more emphasis on handling and feedback and how much connected you are to the car and having a nice drivetrain which would be a revvy N/A engine married to a slick manual, most new cars fail on most of those.

 

[Minstadave]

My last car and my current car were both middling powered (A3 2.0T, 530D) and I don't think I floor it ever to be honest, they're both more than powerful enough to take me to the point where Id run out of skill.