Track day tips?

[Housey]

Some good advice already, but I think the key is not to be a hero. It does not matter how fast you are compared to the other people on the day as long as you drive away from the circuit having enjoyed the day and with all the bits on your car looking the same as when you arrived!

Don't get over confident or it will bight you and I would suggest doing a few laps at a time and then returning to the pits to evaluate what you have learned and to check how your tyres and brakes are handling things. Driving a car fast is all about balance and smoothness not last minute braking and fastest speeds in a straight line. Focus on your line and braking points before you focus on holding off the guy behind you. Once you get into the flow of things you will see your speed increase.

I have seen so many people who spend lots of money on 'modding' their cars when for most (over 90% I would offer) a fast driving course and some track training would realise much more speed than the mods they added. If you are going to be modding your car, I would suggest you focus on the bits that help it turn and the bits that help it stop first, not the bits that add BHP, that can come later.

Oil is the lifeblood of your engine, so make sure its topped up and fresh, though DO NOT overfill it! I have seen people advise this as it helps with oil surge issues, but it is total and utter madness. NEVER OVERFILL YOUR OIL!

Tyres are the only contact you have with the road so make sure they are at the right pressure for track use, and are in good condition without any form of damage. A blow out on a race track still hurts!

Again make sure your brakes are up to the task. Most cars will suffer brake fade after lots of track use, certainly on standard brakes, so the few laps and in approach allows time for your brakes to recover and cool down. Unless you are running ceramics to much heat will mean to little braking, as will not enough heat!

Ensure you have a good crash helmet and a good fire extinguisher too, which is well tied down inside the car. Last thing you want is to be taken out by a big red tube as your hit the brakes!

Most of all though enjoy yourself, keep your eyes on your mirrors and don't race with anyone. Its a track day not a race meeting, the difference is huge I promise you.

And one final bit of advice. When you are driving look as far up the road as you can. Most people focus just in front of their bonnet when driving quickly, which is not the way to get going quickly. Focus through the bend and up the road as far as you can see. It takes practice, but you will start to appreciate its benefits as you get faster and smoother. Watch a motor race or rally and keep your eyes on the drivers head, you will see they are looking as far into the distance as they can.

Most of all have fun.

 

[Zip]

And one final bit of advice. When you are driving look as far up the road as you can. Most people focus just in front of their bonnet when driving quickly, which is not the way to get going quickly. Focus through the bend and up the road as far as you can see. It takes practice, but you will start to appreciate its benefits as you get faster and smoother. Watch a motor race or rally and keep your eyes on the drivers head, you will see they are looking as far into the distance as they can.

Down here we are taught to do that by our driving instructors when we are learning for our tests

 

[tonyyeb]

Start slow and build up your speed lap after lap. The amount of people that bin it on their first lap thinking they are Michael Schumacher is amazing!

 

[Housey]

Down here we are taught to do that by our driving instructors when we are learning for our tests

Its alright for you kids, I passed my test 22 years ago so I am a little frosty on these things

 

[Simon]

Oil is the lifeblood of your engine, so make sure its topped up and fresh, though DO NOT overfill it! I have seen people advise this as it helps with oil surge issues, but it is total and utter madness. NEVER OVERFILL YOUR OIL!

How is it madness to stop you engine destroying itself by pumping air around it rather than oil. It all depends on the engine too.


Only thing that seems to be missed is a cool down lap, this gives the brakes and engine time to cool. When you park up try to not use the handbrake too, rather stop the engine and leave it in gear. If you just come off the track and shut down you risk blowing a hose as the pressure builds up from the hot engine (just like I did at donington -oops)

 

[Housey]

How is it madness to stop you engine destroying itself by pumping air around it rather than oil. It all depends on the engine too.


Only thing that seems to be missed is a cool down lap, this gives the brakes and engine time to cool. When you park up try to not use the handbrake too, rather stop the engine and leave it in gear. If you just come off the track and shut down you risk blowing a hose as the pressure builds up from the hot engine (just like I did at donington -oops)

Simon,

First of all you will not be 'pumping' air around your engine if your sump is full to its correct level so you can rest easy. You are right to suggest that it depends on the engine, but I am not aware of ANY mass produced engine that suggests overfilling oil is anything other than detrimental. If you pull the manual out of the glovebox of your car I will bet you one English pound that it actually suggests you should never over fill your oil. My father and my best friends father both built race car engines, my friends father for a living, and both of them told me under no circumstances EVER to overfill my oil. My current car has a dry sump (911 GT3) and is designed to run at high speed and it is very clear in the manual that I should under no circumstances over fill the oil!

There are a number of huge risk involved in overfilling an engine with oil, to many to go into, but rest assured you will 'risk' damage if you do this, no matter what the engine or what you may have been led to understand. Oil under high pressure, such as on a track, has a habbit of getting into all sorts of places you don't want it and it can cause engine failiure.

I have never seen anyone on a circuit at a track day running long enough of fast enough for oil starvation to be an issue. I have seen many cars damaged for running to little oil and have seen one expire at a race for running to much. In the cars I raced, sprinted and hill climbed I remeber none of them ever being over filled. I tend to go with my eperience, my knowledge and that of people far clever than I and also what I have read in EVER single car manual I have had with my many cars. I do not support the 'trend' I have seen with some track day junkies for overfilling their oil. If you overfill or want to continue overfilling feel free, you may break less hoses if you don't overfill things though

Added
And Simon, add a dry sump and associated pump (if you have not done so already) to your Rover if you are worried about oil surge on the track, makes so much more sense than overfilling the oil IMHO. Nice lump mind

 

[Simon]

I'm more talking about the Honda engines such as the S2000 and ITR that need to be at the max for the track to avoid oil surge. Especially on uprated suspension with grippy tyres, a lot of owners have blew engines in the past by running a 'normal' oil level, the baffles in some sumps aren't great and oil at 1g of cornering force is at 45 degrees in the sump, plus the effects of body roll mean that it's difficult to stop oil from not being picked up by the pump.

At high revs ( higher oil pump speeds) a lot of oil ends up in the head. Reminds me of my mates old 1.3 astra years ago, he used to rag that and it would tick afterwards for a bit due to all the oil being in the head.
It's not really overfilling the oil anyway for the track, more likely just run it at maximum, people may go a little over for safety and also when the engine starts oil is 'lost' into the engine so the actual sump level will be lower than when the engine is running.

You're car is very different to a normal wet sump system in road cars.
A dry sump system would never need similar over filling because it is a dry system. The scavenge pump is designed to suck up air, the main oil pump will never have surge issues due to the design and shape of the oil tanks. As you say there is no need to overfill.

I was involved with a dry sump setup on a motorcycle engine, the sump we deisgned was flat so the engine could be mounted about 1inch off the floor. Unfortunately the scavenge pump was pretty crap and wasnt fast enough. We ended up junking it and cause the engine was so low we couldn't fit a wet sump. We ended up just filling the oil to the crank and then added a big remote oil cooler to 'store' the oil. A bit of blue smoke when it first started but that engine was driven very hard and survived without issue.

The oil being slightly higher certainly won't cause any extra pressure in the engine either, there will be a pressure relief valve to avoid excessive pressure. Not that overfilling the oil does a lot other than creates more 'head' for the pump inlet.

Interestingly the Rover has a great sump as standard with very good baffling. The tomcat race cars would run the levels at minimum without any surge issues.

Oh and nice car

 

[Housey]

My E46 M3's of which I have owned 2 in the past were both wet sump and it was very clear in the manual that over filling them with oil was 'likely' to cause engine damage. On 4 separate occasions I took my car back to the dealers after servicing to get them to remove excess oil. Eventually they learned to stop over filling them, and I was astonished to see their total lack of understanding of the problems of over filling M3's even though it was stated by BMW that it was no no. My wifes Golf Mk5 Golf GTI also states clearly that you should never over fill the engine oil as this may cause damage to the engine.

My dry sump is very different, that I appreciate, I also have to check the oil when the engine is running, not stopped and warm, actually running. Over filling oils can cause foaming, which is a big problem, especially when the oil gets into pistons, plugs and under gaskets. A modest overfill may result in oil foaming to the point where it meets the pistons on the way down and can get sucked past the rings on the intake stroke (because there is relative negative pressure in the cylinder at that point in the cycle but positive pressure in the crankcase).

I totally agree that you should fill your oil to the maximum for circuit use, but once you over fill by over 1/2 litre you really are asking for problems on any engine.

And thanks for the comments on my car and I also drove a Rover Tomcat at Thruxton many years ago

 

[Duke]

 

[Jonnycoupe]

My current car has a dry sump (911 GT3) and is designed to run at high speed and it is very clear in the manual that I should under no circumstances over fill the oil!

Its a dry sump engine.... totally not related to a typical dry sump engine, nor are the manufacturer recommendations. You have a huge oil tank to run dry before you worry about the oil sump pickups lifting air.

Its not the high oil pressure that causes the issues, it the higher crankcase pressure that will cause the leaks etc. But your correct in highlighting this is due to too much oil, mainly windage from the crank and lower volume of air to in the crank case.

 

[Simon]

And thanks for the comments on my car and I also drove a Rover Tomcat at Thruxton many years ago

Nice I was took out at Donington in the rain in one, absolutely awesome on the bends and braking. Proper track weapon.

 

[Housey]

Its a dry sump engine.... totally not related to a typical dry sump engine, nor are the manufacturer recommendations. You have a huge oil tank to run dry before you worry about the oil sump pickups lifting air.

I suggest you read what I said again. I am VERY CLEAR that my dry sumped GT3 is not your 'normal' road going engine. My point is about overfilling oil and I use statements from manufactures as 'examples' of them supporting my, and it would seem your point. Those cars I use, and there are many more, ARE typical road going engines (if VERY high performance in road trim in the M3) with normal 'wet' sumps. I am very clear on the benefits of a dry sump for track work, which is why I advised it would be a good mod for Simon if he tracks his car and MUCH better than overfilling his engine with oil past the maximum manufacturers suggestion.

Its not the high oil pressure that causes the issues, it the higher crankcase pressure that will cause the leaks etc. But your correct in highlighting this is due to too much oil, mainly windage from the crank and lower volume of air to in the crank case.

No, its both or a combination of one or the other, but it depends on the type of engine and the pressures it runs at. You can't generalise and as I said in my first (or second ) post there are MANY issues that overfilling can cause.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

So the oil galleries have rubber seals?

 

[Simon]

I'm not gonna spend thousands on a dry sump system though when running oil at max is good enough. This is from experience of hundreds of people who track there cars, unfortunately for some they have learnt the hard way.

There really aren't that many issues with running too much oil. There will often be a safety factor accounted into where the max mark is put on the dipstick anyway. Plus a lot of cars aren't built as a racecar from the start like your 911 is.

Foaming is not a result of overfilling oil either, foaming is a result off crank hitting the oil on my engine the crank is very high in the engine due to the full stressed crank ladder and isn't a problem going a bit over. So overfilling won't cause any problems. The main point I'm making is that, based on experience of others, some engines don't mind being overfilled slightly.

If you read the manuals and rely on them they also state a lot of things you shouldn't do. Like tune it, modify it or fit any other tyres than what the recommend or indeed the brand of oil you should only use.

Just dont overfill a diesel engine, when the oil level would be high enough that the crank and connecting rods would splash in the oil in the oilpan.
This splashing can create an oil mist or vapor that can be drawn into the cylinders on the intake stroke, around the piston rings creating an unregulated fuel source for the engine.

 

[Housey]

So the oil galleries have rubber seals?

You are going where with this exactly?

 

[Housey]

foaming is a result off crank hitting the oil

Which is also a by product of over filling Simon.

If you read the manuals and rely on them they also state a lot of things you shouldn't do. Like tune it, modify it or fit any other tyres than what the recommend or indeed the brand of oil you should only use.

The manuals are one thing, but I am also basing it on things like the advice of many mechanics and many people who agree with me. We will have to agree to disagree. If it works for you then you go for it, I will choose not to.

The internet is full of people who disagree, makes neither of them right or wrong, just of differing opinion. Enjoy your car, I do

 

[Simon]

Which is also a by product of over filling Simon.


The manuals are one thing, but I am also basing it on things like the advice of many mechanics and many people who agree with me. We will have to agree to disagree. If it works for you then you go for it, I will choose not to.

The internet is full of people who disagree, makes neither of them right or wrong, just of differing opinion. Enjoy your car, I do

Yes but foaming doesn't just happen due to going over the max mark, it happens when there is far far to much oil, modern crank designs and 'crank guards' mean that foaming isn't much of an issue on modern oils anyway due to the anti foaming additives now developed.

Loads of Honda engines blow up on the track due to people running 'just above minimum'. I know merlin does the same with his DC5 Integra and lets be honest the manual isn't designed for the track.

Also more oil = more heat capacity for the 'going to be very stressed' oil system.

 

[Housey]

Yes but foaming doesn't just happen due to going over the max mark, it happens when there is far far to much oil, modern crank designs and 'crank guards' mean that foaming isn't much of an issue on modern oils anyway due to the anti foaming additives now developed.

Er, never said it did. But as you agree it can happen with overfilled engines and it is NEVER a good thing. We are agreeing it would seem...

Loads of Honda engines blow up on the track due to people running 'just above minimum'. I know merlin does the same with his DC5 Integra and lets be honest the manual isn't designed for the track.

Also more oil = more heat capacity for the 'going to be very stressed' oil system.

As I have said, running to the maximum for track use IS A GOOD IDEA and is NOT overfilling it! They go pop for many reasons too, not just oil starvation and you can' really generalise for such things. Not running enough oil is different to running over the maximum. Get it on the max level and you WONT have any problems that overfilling would prevent. Ask any experienced mechanic and they will concur, well most of em

 

[Jonnycoupe]

I can see where this thread is heading but seems to have a few assumptions in it which have little standing

A) all engines are designed from the outset like a 911 or M3 engines. FALSE
B) Oil level has a linear correlation to oil pressure. FALSE.
C) oil pressure has a direct effect on crankcase seals. FALSE

There are lots of things overfilling may cause(varying on engine type etc) but few symptons are worse than a spun big end bearing.

 

[Simon]

We're just having a discussion.

Back to the OP.

Don't crash is my biggest tip and remember it's not a race. Will feel like one sometimes though lol, oh and don't upset any M3 CSLs