Tracking Results Query

Trojan

Trojan

Trojan

Soldato
Joined
19 Sep 2003
Posts
5,319
Location
Adelaide, Australia
Right then, took the 172 to have a 4 wheel alignment check and tracking sorted earlier following uneven tyre wear and a bit too much understeer into sharp corners. I got a print out with the results on, however it means pretty much nothing to me! Therefore I was hoping someone could explain what these results mean, and if they look to be correct for the 172:

Readings before adjustment Front
Nearside Individual Toe -4mm
Offside Individual Toe 0mm
Total Toe Reading -4mm

Readings after adjustment Front
Nearside Individual Toe -3mm
Offside Individual Toe +2mm
Total Toe Reading -1mm

Rear flag reading before adjustment
Nearside 7.5mm
Offside 7.5mm

Rear flag reading after adjustment
Nearside 8.5mm
Offside 8.5mm

Cheers :)
 
No idea mate, it kind of reads a bit strange...

You would think on the front, either side should read the same afterwards, just a '-mm' on the nearside & '+mm' on the offside.
Then looking at the rear, the fact that they are the same before & then slightly adjusted afterwards, but still matched, reads good to me.

But as mentioned, i'm only throwing my hat in the ring, i've probably got it all wrong!
How do you find the drive now? Any positive difference?
Any severe pulling when accelerating hard?
Does she brake straight & true without your hands on the wheel?
I'd be tempted to check on ClioSport what the toe should be on the 172.
 
They've made a mess of the front offside toe - they should have left it alone.

They look like they're too concerned with getting the total toe about right, when really if they'd left the front offside as it was - it would have been a better result.

Ideally, I guess both fronts should be running around -1mm - 1.5mm each, with a total neg toe of -2 to -3mm?

As it is - it's still going to wear the tyres unevenly.

Rear flag - not sure what they mean by that - on the rear there's toe and camber and caster, not actually heard of rear flag before. Bear/Dogbreath/Simon/Jonny may be able to explain that one.
 
Not got a clue what "rear flag" refers to, unless you have two manky old St. Georges flags hanging off the rear windows that needed adjustment? :D

It's probably some pointless acronym like "four laser alignment guide" or simmilar, as it's certainly not a suspension geometry term I've ever heard before.
 
Here is some Post alignment at Flag Fen Mare:

flagfena1.jpg
 
Hmm, left hand posts are riding a little high for my liking.

Nice fast-road pond-finder geo settings though. :cool:
 
Sound like the same problem i'm having, it was corrected and now its come back, i was informed the tracking can be + / - 2.5 for it to be within limits.
 
Firestar_3x said:
tracking can be + / - 2.5 for it to be within limits.
Click to expand...

That's a contradiction in terms.

+/- 2.5mm is a LOT!

That would allow for a massive change in handling characteristics.
 
It strikes me that a lot of places offering tracking adjustment are completely full of spam. "Alwiight mate sorted now, good job you came in, minted now, 50nicker please, i'm 'avin a brew".

I'm tempted to get mine checked over as it's been a while, but don't want to roll into any bunch of muppets shed. Any recomendations for Manchester area?
 
Coco said:
It strikes me that a lot of places offering tracking adjustment are completely full of spam. "Alwiight mate sorted now, good job you came in, minted now, 50nicker please, i'm 'avin a brew".
Click to expand...

Damn cow boys, the one I take it to has a laser machine which display all the readings in the waiting area so you can see the actual measurements that they are adjusting. Thats at ECS in Derby.
 
SystemR sounds spot on! Only 15 miles away as well :)
Although i'm tempted by ECS as i'd get to play around the lake-district! ;)

Any more news Trojan?
 
merlin said:
That's a contradiction in terms.

+/- 2.5mm is a LOT!

That would allow for a massive change in handling characteristics.
Click to expand...

True, just something the manager at ATS told me, if its correct or not i have no idea.
 
Coco said:
You would think on the front, either side should read the same afterwards, just a '-mm' on the nearside & '+mm' on the offside.
Click to expand...

Not really. Front toe will change when you turn the steering wheel so the individual measurements are meaningless*, the overall toe is the important figure. For example, in the case above, if you turned the wheel the right amount you would have -0.5mm on each side.

*well the steering wheel might be a touch off centre but ultimately it's not important to the handling
 
Thanks for the replies fellas, even though I'm still not much closer at understanding the damn results :o

I did have one reply on Cliosport from somebody who sounds like they know what they're talking about, though he doesn't actually mention whether the results are good or what he would expect for a 172! This was his reply:

The toe in is the amount the wheels point inward if you think of looking at the car from above the the wheels can be like this / \ or like this \ / or ¦ ¦ . This is called the tow in basically the front is adjustable via the stearing arms. Your front passengers side was pointing in by 4 mm now points in by 3mm the drivers side pointed straight ahead now points out by 2mm. The total toe readin is the toal difference so -4 + 0 = -4 Now its -3 + 2 = -1

The rear cnnot be adjusted unless you go for shims and you only need them for track racing setups. iIf the backs out you have to fix any bent bits.
The back is measured though as this is what you need to use to work out the fornt allignment.
Click to expand...

That sound correct? If so, from what I can gather, the front wheels are now just 1mm out from pointing in exactly the same direction. That direction however, isn't dead straight ahead but a few mm off to one side. If I'm correct in what I'm saying there, does that mean that to go dead straight, the steering wheel will need to be turned slighty to the side rather than being left in the centre?

Unfortunately I've not had chance to try the car's handling out yet since I had it done as it was busy on the way home, and I'm currently doing nights so am either in bed, or working. One thing I have noticed though is that in first gear when flooring it I'm finding better traction than before. Certainly seems to be spinning the wheels less which is good. Hopefully I'll get a chance over the weekend to take the car out for a spirited drive and see if the understeer has been reduced.
 
My readings have always been that - means it points towards the middle, + means points to the outside of the car.

So a - and + suggests the wheels are like : / / Which obviously isn't what you want.
 
Simon said:
My readings have always been that - means it points towards the middle, + means points to the outside of the car.

So a - and + suggests the wheels are like : / / Which obviously isn't what you want.
Click to expand...

Precisely. Personally I'd take it back and get them to do a better job, if you need an excuse you could say it feels like the car is tugging to the right, in fact - it may well tug to the right. As for the lack of wheelspin - the road surface is getting better now so that'll explain that.

On the subject of geometry - finally I managed to drive out last night with bone dry roads to test out my new springs & geometry - fin awesome, power oversteer in a FWD just rocks. :cool:
 
merlin said:
On the subject of geometry - finally I managed to drive out last night with bone dry roads to test out my new springs & geometry - fin awesome, power oversteer in a FWD just rocks. :cool:
Click to expand...

:D Was pretty awesome on just standard stuff too :eek:
 
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