Trail Braking

[Scort]

Heard about this the other day - it's a new concept to me, and wondered whether anyone actually does this on the road; or if it's just an American thing?

What I understand of it (not looked at it much) is that you keep front brake pressure on, albeit very slightly, during a turn - or apply the same light touch during a turn, if it's going Pete Tong.

I think the only time I have ever used the front brake during turns, was back in the days of my R1 and my roundabout surfing to destroy countless knee sliders - but I was only doing that as a way to (hopefully) avoid being unable to slow whilst banked right over.

My instructor always told me, that if a turn is going wrong, use the rear brake - as it will help to 'tip the bike' into the turn.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[tom_e]

Trail braking is as I understand not your usual, oops this isn't going where I want it to so apply some brake to bring it back in line braking.
It's purposefully applying enough front brake as you come into the corner to reduce the trail of the bike and in effect shorten the wheelbase allowing you to carry more speed through a tighter turn.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Scort]

Think I'll stick to what I was taught, and what I have used for the last ~12 years of riding: braking done before the bend, gradually increase throttle through the turn as I watch the vanishing point; and use a bit of back brake to mop up if I run a bit wide.

After watching a bunch of videos, I just feel that trail braking seems unnecessary on the road, on the track yes, but I can't see the benefits for road riding; even fast road riding.

 

[BUDFORCE]

I have come across several guides, Youtube etc that say you should actually always do this.

Very slightly use the front brake into the corner, then power out once you go past the apex.

It makes sense, it loads the suspension which means your tyres will bite into the road, increase the surface area against the road the way your tyres are designed. It also means your suspension will better grip over small bumps etc. It goes against everything I was told though many moons ago in training, where an above comment, was told to finish braking before your corner and very lightly dab the rear if you've over cooked it.

Thing is, a riding school isn't go to tell you to aggressively dive into corners, is it?

I also watched something else a few days ago, that actually, not taking corners aggressively enough is actually a bad idea as it reduces mechanical grip (for the above reasons) but.... And here is the thing... doing this reduces your margin for error, yes you have more grip, but, if you do get it wrong, well...

It's why I HATE riding it wet conditions, I don't trust the grip, which is probably there, but because I don't trust it, I don't corner effectively, which is then compounding things as you are giving yourself even less mechanical grip.

I'd like to hear more opinions though.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[Thecaferacer]

I use trail braking all the time, its just a process of feathering the brake past the point of entry so that you can get your speed just right before powering out of the apex.

If you release the brake then you have committed to that speed, which is fine if your speed is right. However if you try to scrub some off after this it upsets the balance of the bike.

 

[The_Abyss]

I often use trail braking, probably more of a comfort blanket more than anything else if I don't have full confidence in the corner. But equally I'm quite happy still braking as I turn into a corner - linked brakes give good balance and it is just a habit of riding into hairpins pretty hard but one I'm comfortable with.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

After watching a bunch of videos, I just feel that trail braking seems unnecessary on the road, on the track yes, but I can't see the benefits for road riding; even fast road riding.

Pretty much that, it's not something I use on the roads.

I use it for pretty much every corner on track. Modern race tyres are designed to be worked hard and it's astonishing how hard you can brake, deep into a corner. Maximum braking upright and then gradually reduce braking the more lean you add. braking into the corner keeps the weight forward, spreading the tyres contact patch, working the rubber to keep heat in it and compresses the front suspension which in turn shortens the wheel base making the bike easier to turn. As you reach the point you want to apply power (which isn't necessarily the corner apex) then you're off the brakes and feeding in the throttle. there should also be no coasting at any point, throttle or brake, nothing in between.

 

[Scort]

Pretty much that, it's not something I use on the roads.

I use it for pretty much every corner on track. Modern race tyres are designed to be worked hard and it's astonishing how hard you can brake, deep into a corner. Maximum braking upright and then gradually reduce braking the more lean you add. braking into the corner keeps the weight forward, spreading the tyres contact patch, working the rubber to keep heat in it and compresses the front suspension which in turn shortens the wheel base making the bike easier to turn. As you reach the point you want to apply power (which isn't necessarily the corner apex) then you're off the brakes and feeding in the throttle. there should also be no coasting at any point, throttle or brake, nothing in between.

That sounds like the perfect application of the technique!

Adding it to road riding, is just adding yet another thing to think of when riding - fair enough, it will become muscle memory given time; but I would certainly dissuade newer riders (1-2 years of experience) from worrying about using it on the road. With the state of our roads and all the other things going on, I personally think a newer rider would benefit more on setting the correct speed for the corner, in advance.

I'd be interested to see if it's a skill that is taught on one of the Advanced riding courses.

 

[ttaskmaster]

NVM

 

[BUDFORCE]

Yea riding today, after reading this thread yesterday, I made a conscious effort to try and think about what I was doing when cornering without trying to actually change what I'm doing.

Seems I already do this on the odd occasion, but certainly not on all corners.

 

[NooBish AbbZ]

I think i do it, but not as if i actually need to. As someone's already said, I always saw trail braking as applying that bit of extra braking pressure in order to load up the front tyre and get the bit more grip. Now i don't have much trust in the front end of the SV and as a result the only trail braking I do is rear brake and generally while I'm on the throttle, and I'm only doing it to keep the bike nice and tight around the bend.

 

[duc999]

And dont forget the biggest issue of your survival instincts kicking in, mainly target fixation. Watch you tube , you just know that when they look off the road thats where they will end up !

 

[Kreeeee]

Trail braking is as I understand not your usual, oops this isn't going where I want it to so apply some brake to bring it back in line braking.
It's purposefully applying enough front brake as you come into the corner to reduce the trail of the bike and in effect shorten the wheelbase allowing you to carry more speed through a tighter turn.

That's how I use it. I find it makes sharp hairpins easier to navigate at speed.

 

[Draeger]

I've been riding for 30 years and I'm a Fire Service 'Biker Down' instructor. I have always been an advocate of 'slow in/fast out'. Set the bike up for the bend and progress through taking the correct line without adjusting throttle, brakes which just upsets the balance of the bike if you try and adjust mid corner even by a minuscule amount. Flipside though - In a lot of cases you can however adjust your line through a corner not just by physically turning the bars and counter steering (including steering input through the footpegs) but also by tiny and smooth adjustments to the throttle. But there are limits at which this can go wrong. You need to know your limits, riding ability and your bikes performance inside out to be able to sense when you are at or near those limits. And a lot of the time if you are riding on the road anywhere near those limits, generally it's gonna be too fast anyway.

Trail braking....I don't think I've ever used it consciously on the road. Then again, I ride an Aprilia RSV which aren't exactly renowned for having a decent rear brake.

 

[Kreeeee]

Trail braking....I don't think I've ever used it consciously on the road. Then again, I ride an Aprilia RSV which aren't exactly renowned for having a decent rear brake.

You have an amazing rear brake, just close the throttle

 

[Draeger]

Well, there is that too, yeah. The pops and bangs on the over run are an added bonus.

 

[duc999]

One and only rule about trail braking, don't let your ambition outweigh your talent (copyright C. Stoner)