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- 9 Sep 2007
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I'd drive the train for £39,500 a year
20 K maybe even 15k !
Train drivers = greed
- Thread starter Mikey
- Start date
20 K maybe even 15k !
seconded.
It would be funny getting 40k to do the DLR, since you could just sit back and let the train drive itself... like they often do.
Sounds pretty much like a pilot to me, he's only there to pull a few levers isn't he?
Or could it be that there's more to it than meets the eye? No, that can't be it.
I'm a train driver.Well instructor actually (means new trainees come and drive my train under my supervision for around 3 months at a time..I coach their practical handling and help them practically apply the rules and regs they've learnt) ,although when I don't have trainees I'm a normal driver.I've been a driver for 11 years,not with Southwest trains I might add,but with Southern.
I've read a lot of nonsense and ignorance in this thread.I lay the blame at the media's door,some people seem to see us as greedy and paid a large amount for doing very little.There aren't many people in here who know what my job entails or why I'm justified to collect my £37k basic (around 40k with overtime).
So in order to help,I'll offer answers to any questions you may have.Or you (if the cap fits...etc) can carry on believing what the media spoon-feed you about a job you know very little about.
I've read a lot of nonsense and ignorance in this thread.I lay the blame at the media's door,some people seem to see us as greedy and paid a large amount for doing very little.There aren't many people in here who know what my job entails or why I'm justified to collect my £37k basic (around 40k with overtime).
So in order to help,I'll offer answers to any questions you may have.Or you (if the cap fits...etc) can carry on believing what the media spoon-feed you about a job you know very little about.
I was hoping someone would come in who knows his stuff, I remember the last thread ( might of been a few years now) and the story of a guy setting his career back 10 years because he went 80 feet over a point. Is that true to an extent with freight or even any trains? Has the media attention with the rail disasters brought about massive changes to the system?
How do I go about getting a job? Are they advertised in the press or is it a case of contacting companies directly?
80 feet over a point? I'm not sure what you mean..80 feet past a red signal? Buffer stops? What I will say is the railway is,and has always been,event driven.When people die,changes get implemented.The railway management at large has yet to see that a lack of incidents doesn't mean a safe system of work is in place.A few examples..
1997 - Southall
Driver of an intercity 125 express ploughed into a freight train as a direct result of a safety system having been isolated for days.(Automatic Warning System..when the driver passes a cautionary signal a buzzer sounds in the cab.Unless a button is pushed to acknowledge this buzzer,the brakes come on.) The rules at the time allowed this to happen,as it was deemed too costly to cancel services to fix faults on old rolling stock.The rules were changed after.Any faults with the AWS system means the service gets cancelled.
1999 - Paddington
Michael Hodder drove through a red signal into the path of an inbound express.Combined speed of 130mph.Root cause of this was poor training of Michael Hodder.The driver training packages of most train companies had been eroded away due to cost.This allowed Michael to drive a commuter train without the correct training or assessments having been done.His competency was never rigorously tested.As a result of this driver training has been radically changed.The instructors now have to be qualified (yes..unbelievably driver instructors were given jobs without any formal training) among other sweeping changes.
Sorry,have waffled a bit.In short,train drivers are the top of the food chain on the railway.We are paid to be responsible for driving the train,for fixing the train,for knowing every safety system on board intimately and the procedures and rules regarding their isolation,for keeping our passengers safe in the event of a derailment or fire.Whilst driving we have power of veto over the signallers,over any management instruction,over the police should they be called to an incident.We are paid to marshal emergency services in the event of a serious accident,securing current isolations and ensuring everyone else is doing their job correctly.The moving of the handles is actually the easiest part of our jobs
Basically,we are paid for what we know..not what we do day to day.The media attention has been partially helpful.People now know what a SPAD is (signal passed at danger for those that don't).Peoples understanding of the workings of the railway has increased,specifically the railways failings that lead to death.The public have a right to demand a safe railway.Having said that,the media rarely mention the true nature of our job.This leads to assumptions of greed when pay deals are being negotiated.A lot of times we are campaigning for these safe systems of work to be brought in without the need for people to die.Of course we want to be paid well,and certain members of our union use the fact that we can't easily be replaced to force a generous pay offer,but those people are in the minority nowadays.
Perhaps I haven't grasped your question properly..please fell free to pull me up on any aspect of the answers I've provided.Always happy to help those wanting to understand
Our company advertises on the internet.Link
Be aware that for every man employed,150 people have applied for that one job.It is massivley over-subscribed at the minute.We are having a recruitment drive at the moment though..get cracking
Our company advertises on the internet.Link
Be aware that for every man employed,150 people have applied for that one job.It is massivley over-subscribed at the minute.We are having a recruitment drive at the moment though..get cracking
Cool, anything you look for in particular? Eg, past jobs, education etc.
not really tbh...
there is a lot more to being a pilot & the levels of complexity are far higher
so train drivers need to do a bit of training in incident management etc.. so what...
I really don't see how it justifies 40k
Basic education..O-level or GCSE level.Any background in safety critical work is very helpful.Good references with excellent attendence records are essential.Medically fit with no history of heart,eye or ear problems.Weight / height no longer matters.Oh and for drivers,must be over 21.That's pretty much it.Once you've got past the application form stage,things hot up.A full days apptitude testing followed by structured interviews.It's at the apptitude test stage that the biggest fallout of applicants occurs.Around 75% fail at this stage.A failure means one more chance in the future.Fail it twice and that's your lot..
Hope that helps
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Spot on! Cheers, fella. Might well pop in an application, although it would mean moving down south.
You know this? A pilot is paid for the level of responsibilty he shoulders.A lot of people can be taught to fly a plane..but how many can be relied on to respond immediately and correctly should an emergency situation happen? Not that many.
We are the same.We get seconds to decide on the correct course of action should,for example,a full wheelslide occur due to rail contamination (leaves mostly).At 90mph a train may slide for close to two miles.It will go where the rails take it,whether that be past a red signal,into the back of another train or into a set of buffer stops.You may be thinking that this can't happen that often...that I'm embellishing to bolster my argument.I'm not.I had to deal with 11 such incidents between Nov 07 and Jan 08.
Now that's just one area of responsibilty.What happens when brakes need to be isolated? What happens when signalling systems fail? What happens when a fire occurs? We are paid to shoulder that responsibilty,and be able to decide in seconds on the correct course of action to take.
Now I'm not as naive to think that mine is the only safety critical job out there.I'm well aware that plenty of other jobs require taking on a heavy level of responsibilty.I'm also aware that some aren't paid as well as mine.Does that mean I'm wrong to feel justified collecting my salary? Because other companies don't pay well enough? I believe I earn my money.Every penny.
Spot on! Cheers, fella. Might well pop in an application, although it would mean moving down south.
If you need any more help,please feel free to email me (in sig).Good luck.
You missed your chance with Freightliner just recently, they were advertising for trainees in Crewe and Birmingham aswell as a couple of other places.Spot on! Cheers, fella. Might well pop in an application, although it would mean moving down south.
Agreed.But what happens when things go wrong? A computer can drive the train..our new trains have the capability to be driven remotely,but a computer can't be relied upon to fix problems and dynamically react to differing track conditions.I'm sure it won't be far away though.
but with a couple of people watching over should be fine, and what exactly can a driver do if he sees something on the track/a problem with it?
After all isn't the breaking distance further than he can see?
What happens when things go wrong with a driver at the helm>
Come off it - the level of complexity of a flying plane is many times greater than that of a train - it really doesn't need pointing out in detail - also it isn't just the 'responsibility' - bus drivers also share a responsibility to look after their passengers tbh...
IMO you've got a large salary because you've got powerful unions - the rail industry isn't a complete free market and it is simply the structure in place at the moment that has allowed you to be overpaid.
the potential pool of train drivers are people with GCSEs/Olevels who can pass a test involving looking at a bunch of dots and reacting quickly to lights etc... and there is a huge oversupply of applicants
Yes it is safety critical - so what - what you actually do day to day is fairly mundane - the training hardly justifies such a huge premium tbh..
I'm not overly familiar with the underground,so please forgive my swerving into my own field of expertise (over-ground)
When I said 'problems' I wasn't referring to track problems/debris.You're absolutely correct in your statement that a trains braking distance is,for the most part,further than a driver can see.The problems I was referring to were things like fire on the train (evacuating people out of a hazardous enviroment onto a track where you might have an electrified third rail,other trains running) ,serious collision/derailment where the ability to stop other trains from moving and possibly compounding an incident (a-la clapham) is a priority.
Now,you'd have to train a train attendant to fix problems with the train should it go wrong in the middle of no-where and get it moving again.If brakes were isolated,he'd need to know the speeds to continue at.If other safety systems need islolating he'd need to know the rules regarding this.
So,your example of a couple of people watching over an automated train isn't quite so simple.How much would you pay each to do this? Bearing in mind a train guard gets 22k for simply ringing a bell and collecting revenue.Who wuld do this job and risk a manslaughter charge should things go wrong for under 20k? Not me..