Trains/Rail Network

Associate
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20 Mar 2012
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London(ish)
No, I was going to leave it at that, but Jesus it would be truly depressing to never see your kids, or if you do it’s in exhaustion. That’s ignoring anxiety about the future as well.

Well, I've long said that people should consider their personal circumstances before having children, and that I wouldn't want children unless I was wealthy enough that I didn't have to run around every day trying to balance work and family. Maybe people just need to accept that starting a family is a monumental ball ache...

I’m not saying it’s the sole reason, just one of many.

Otherwise productivity wouldn’t have stalled for the last decade, something is clearly wrong and it’s not just hurting individuals, it’s hurting companies too.

It seems like you've made a leap or two to go from the trains causing depression, to that being the cause of stagnant productivity, but okay - If conditions are really bad then I can accept that would make workers less motivated. I'm not sure if the trains were ever that great though, and I'm also not sure that productivity has stalled - what figure are you basing that on?
 
Soldato
Joined
2 Feb 2010
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10,771
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East Midlands
The alternative is finding a more local workplace? I used to work in London (the hellhole that is Edgware Road) and I'm now Cirencester, 5 min cycle to my new office. Much better!

Believe me I did try to find a more local job. But after being made redundant from my job of 27 years I needed something. I applied for about 50 jobs, got one interview and got offered the job. Was the highest paid one I applied for too, so go figure :p
 
Man of Honour
Joined
25 Oct 2002
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Hampshire
all the train companies seem to care about is tickets, or rather making sure everyone has the right tickets, requiring you to use them to get in/out, getting checked on the train, sometimes more than once, announcements about tickets, posters about tickets etc etc
I guess it must vary based on location, because that isn't my experience. Essentially my normal routine would be:
1) Go to station, no ticket required
2) Probably get asked for ticket on journey
3) Use stairs to exit platform, usually require ticket for barriers but sometimes they are open if there is a lot of people around
4) Walk onto underground platform, no ticket required
5) Exit at Bank, occasionally need a ticket if they are checking them otherwise just walk through the side gate

So on a two leg journey I need my ticket 2-3 times, no big deal. Biggest issue is a flimsy paper ticket never lasts 12 months before it either stops working in the barriers or becomes too faded to read, but that's another story.

I imagine London is a bigger issue though due to the sheer volume of traffic coming in from all directions, it must be very easy for a small delay along the chain to have huge consequences.
There's a strike on SWR this month, and ironically today was better than normal from the punctuality perspective in that my outbound and inbound trains both arrived on time/early, which is extremely rare. Running less trains means congestion was much less of an issue than normal.
 

A2Z

A2Z

Soldato
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Earth
When I hopefully buy a house next year with the girlfriend, it's inevitable it will have to be outside of London and will have to start using the train to commute, not looking forward to it at all for these exact reasons. Only good thing is we both work for the Underground so will get a 75% discount on a rail season ticket.
 
Soldato
Joined
11 Sep 2013
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12,310
But Reading is crazy expensive because of the very fact it is <30mins on the train to Paddington.
Certain trains are, yes. If all the circumstances are generally favourable, then yes it will be about 30-45 minutes. On an average day, though, expect the latter end of that time frame, plus whatever you have at either end. It's never just the 30 minute pipe dream that they're selling.

My point is, if the train services improved then places like Newbury (and further out etc.) would be more achievable in terms of commuting to London.
At the expense of others, yes, and given that I'm one who'd have to pay that price I'm obviously not a fan of the idea. There are plenty of places nearer and with existing transport networks which would benefit far more from redevelopment.

As it stands, it's only achievable for this mental-cases that want to spend that long doing it. tldr; improve the trains and people can live further out.
And force out all the people who settled locally when they can no longer afford the increase in prices. Great plan.
 
Soldato
Joined
16 Aug 2009
Posts
7,750
I love that three carriage train from Bath Spa. Never seen a train so short.

Try getting the train from exeter to barnstaple. two carriages only. They tried to close the line for a long time and had the most ancient rickety noisy diesal car you could imagine the whole thing shaked when it was stationary it could set your teeth on edge. Eventually they changed their mind and got a more modern vehicle which was a darn sight more comfortable but still only two carriages though unless bank holiday or such and luxury! Three carriages!
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Nov 2008
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12,865
Location
London
There's a strike on SWR this month, and ironically today was better than normal from the punctuality perspective in that my outbound and inbound trains both arrived on time/early, which is extremely rare. Running less trains means congestion was much less of an issue than normal.

Both my commutes during the strike have had an SWR train arrive at least 10mins late, and completely stuffed full of people. Judging from your location I'm assuming you use the Bournemouth/Southampton services which don't seem to be as troublesome as the dreaded Hounslow loop line.

It seems strange for some people to acknowledge that the current system is bad but then take the **** about Labour wanting to re-nationalise the train network.

Might as well give it a go, since the current system is ******* appalling.

Historical fare rises:
2011: 6.2%
2012: 5.9%
2013: 3.9%
2014: 2.8%
2015: 2.2%
2015: 1.1%
2017: 2.3%
2018: 3.4%
2019: 3.1%

Something like 50% of fares on the railway are regulated and set by the government, and virtually all of the infrastructure is ran by the government (Network Rail).

The train operating companies have their issues, but it's the government side of things (National Rail, TFL, DfT) that needs sorting out first.
 
Soldato
Joined
24 Jul 2003
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3,293
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South East Coast
This thread is well timed. Have had to use the train twice a week for Hastings to Brighton for last 3 months. I am currently sitting on a train that has been delayed for over an hour and 30 minutes AFTER I got on it. I can count on one hand the trips where there were no issues. Today is exceptionally stupid (and communication about it has been appalling) but there always seems to be something. Luckily wont need to take another after end of next week and couldn't be happier!
 
Associate
Joined
2 Aug 2005
Posts
588
Network Rail aren't privatised and they are responsible for the tracks that all the franchises run on. They are, on the whole in a poor state of repair which causes 'some' delays. The biggest problem, is that when bidding for one of these franchises, promised are made as part of the bid by the DfT that the rails will be capable of serving x% more passengers, and that the tracks will be upgraded to support this.

These private companies will then bid based on the potential revenue that these upgraded lines will give; more passengers, bigger / more trains = higher profit.

The state of the lines of course, never improves, meaning the private companies will hold back investment, and so the circle of life continues with service getting poorer. VTEC, Northern Rail, the list goes on.

I personally think the current system is terrible, as someone has said above, there is little to no incentive for the rail franchise owners to invest, when the profits aren't going to be what they expect, and there is an opportunity every year to increase rail prices. Throughout all of this, the customer loses.

Someone mentioned letting the dutch run our trains, that is Abelio - backed by the Dutch Gov't. You should look into the performance of MerseyRail and ScotRail to see why that is a 'great' idea. Just remember that there isn't a single city in Holland with a population of over 800,000 and a countrywide population of 6million, not even 2/3 of the size of London. Would you trust a guy running a burger van cater a 3 course meal for 300?
 
Soldato
Joined
10 Jul 2008
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7,745
I've been commuting into London for the last 5 years on trains. I put in delay repay claims each month that average about £50 compensation. Annoyingly, South Western Railway (when they were South West Trains) used to not use Delay repay and instead used void days to compensate season ticket holders. So every few months, or at the end of a year of season ticket ownership, you could simply walk up to a ticket office person and ask for any refunds due to poor service. They would then refund you a load in one whack. Some years this would be hundreds of pounds. You didn't have to think about it.

With delay repay, you are forced to fill in an online form for EVERY. SINGLE. JOURNEY. This is a deliberate effort to shaft season ticket holders and reduce the compensation paid out because people simply cba to fill them in daily. It's effort and mind numbing. The online forms are deliberately slow to fill in and do not save any of your information. They also include captcha checks. They marketed it as being great and fair to be a part of the industry standard delay repay scheme, when in all honesty this is only good for people buying daily or one off tickets that faced delays. They also reject a lot of claims, stating that the "delay was less than 15 minutes" when it wasn't by their clocks. The new "auto delay repay" is also a joke and very limited.

The cost of my ticket annually is over 5k. The service has become worse than ever since South West Trains became South Western Railway a couple of years ago. It will rise again in January. Despite all this SWR have had strikes on numerous occasions over the last year and we are currently facing a 27 day strike where a "reduced timetable" is in effect to cover this strike period. What this translates to is that if you are lucky, trains run about half the time, but they are often short formed and absolutely packed. Like, dangerously packed. Delays and cancellations are to be expected and you can't claim anything for this other than normal delay repay based only on the temporary timetable put in place.

It's all about the profit. There is no incentive to provide a good service. It's a captive market.
The pricing is such that it is always beneficial to buy an annual season ticket if you are a regular commuter, even if you work from home once or twice a week. In fact, for most people it would only start to save money when buying daily tickets, if you work from home 3 times out of your 5 day week. i.e. You only travel twice. Which nobody can realistically do in most office jobs.
The ticket pricing is still overly complex, restrictive and unintelligent.

In an ideal world, tickets pricing would be fairer and allow us to pocket savings when not actually using the lines. This would encourage less travel and more remote working easing commuter congestion slightly.

I looked at getting a motorbike again to commute but the savings aren't all that significant unless buying an extremely economic (slow and boring) bike. You have to worry about all sorts of other faff, like your gear, clothing, showers, your safety, the wet/icey/cold mornings and nights. I've done it before and swore I'd never do it again unless the time savings were super significant.
 
Soldato
Joined
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UK
Can anyone tell me if the Underground services are ok in central london? I'm looking to travel around London Eye, Chinatown, Leicester Square etc. Thank You
 
Soldato
Joined
13 Apr 2013
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La France
Can anyone tell me if the Underground services are ok in central london? I'm looking to travel around London Eye, Chinatown, Leicester Square etc. Thank You

They’re fine if you avoid peak hours when some line are rammed.

Chinatown is just 2 streets away from Leicester Square, so you’ll be walking that.

For the London Eye, take the Northern Line (Black) SOUTHBOUND from Leicester Square to Waterloo and the Eye is 5 minutes walk.

This Walking Tube Map might be useful:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map.pdf
 
Soldato
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In a world of my own
I was on a train last night returning from Waterloo to Portsmouth (the 16:30 service) and the train was rammed - standing room only. I was standing next to a copper and we got chatting, he told me that the Police no longer get free travel with a warrant card - they have to pay into a fund and get a reduced fair.

It used to be the case there was a covenant between the Police and Railways - coppers got to ride for free and in return they would assist the guard with any issues that came up.

Now they are expected to assist the guard and still pay - with the threat of losing their jobs if they don't.

Beyond disgusting imho.
 
Soldato
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UK
They’re fine if you avoid peak hours when some line are rammed.

Chinatown is just 2 streets away from Leicester Square, so you’ll be walking that. Thanks guys really appreciate that :D

For the London Eye, take the Northern Line (Black) SOUTHBOUND from Leicester Square to Waterloo and the Eye is 5 minutes walk.

This Walking Tube Map might be useful:

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/walking-tube-map.pdf
 
Soldato
Joined
20 Oct 2002
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17,924
Location
London
Can anyone tell me if the Underground services are ok in central london? I'm looking to travel around London Eye, Chinatown, Leicester Square etc. Thank You
No it's not ok. Please don't ;)
Now they are expected to assist the guard and still pay - with the threat of losing their jobs if they don't.

Beyond disgusting imho.
Surely if they have to go on the tube as part of their job they can for free? I dunno. Maybe "normal" policemen don't go on the tube? Only BTP? :confused:
 
Soldato
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20 Oct 2002
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17,924
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London
Generally I walk most of it. But as @Terminal_Boy says, get the Northern line down to Waterloo for the Eye.
Seriously, it's not even a mile. No wonder tourists come to London and think it's a ****hole because they spend their day cramped onto the tube rather than actually walking around and seeing the sights.

Walking down from Chinatown, through Leicester Square you could go via Trafalgar Square and the museums there, nip into the edge of Covent Garden, even come down and have a look at the Savoy, maybe come down Villiers Street and walk over the bridge taking in the sights... all without much of a detour. Why you'd get the tube I do not know. I'd argue that even doing the direct route below would be quicker than faffing with the tube. Especially getting into Leicester Square station.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Lei...72409ea92!2m2!1d-0.119543!2d51.503324!3e2!5i1
 
Soldato
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5 Nov 2010
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Hertfordshire
Seriously, it's not even a mile. No wonder tourists come to London and think it's a ****hole because they spend their day cramped onto the tube rather than actually walking around and seeing the sights.

Walking down from Chinatown, through Leicester Square you could go via Trafalgar Square and the museums there, nip into the edge of Covent Garden, even come down and have a look at the Savoy, maybe come down Villiers Street and walk over the bridge taking in the sights... all without much of a detour. Why you'd get the tube I do not know. I'd argue that even doing the direct route below would be quicker than faffing with the tube. Especially getting into Leicester Square station.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Lei...72409ea92!2m2!1d-0.119543!2d51.503324!3e2!5i1

Just to clarify, I do agree with you as I only get tubes if I need to go some distance. But was just agreeing that the tube option would be Leicester Square to Waterloo on the dirty ol' Northern Line.
 
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