Triathlete Strength Training

Ok ticking over was perhaps the wrong kinda terminology, I'm doing alright run wise.
Nice little duathlon saturday morning which I placed well, 3k run 17k offroad bike 3k run. Felt good, nice little challenge.
Swim Saturday afternoon, squash Sunday afternoon then Gym again tonight.

2x8 60kg squat
1x8 70kg squat

3x8 30kg overhead press

3x8 straight leg raises

3x8 pull ups (narrowed the grip each set)

Looks like I'm doing Vietnam 70.3 in May so that'll be a nice test for me...
 
5:15 for the 70.3

0:35 swim
2:35 bike
1:45 run

>12 for the full

1:20 swim
5:30 bike
4:30 run

I know it's early days and I almost feel daft for thinking it but my swim stroke has just improved massively... Been struggling to slow it down, trying to keep stroke rate under control but feel as though I struggle to breath on the pull. Now I have enough power in the pull to glide as per the catch up technique but without struggling to get breath... Sounds insignificant, but I've been trying to do that for a while... Only way I could swim before was with a higher stroke rate, but consequently I was tiring.
 
have you any marathon / half marathon experience? Or bike for that matter? Both of those are fairly ambitious times for the full but not unachievable but you MUST focus more on the disciplines now rather than the strength training. The brick sessions now (before your half in May) are critical, especially the bike to run transition. Running training can't "tick over" either. Just putting miles in will not cut it. Speed and Hill work are the most critical component.

I've been coaching someone for a half marathon who as of June last year had never run in her life but had a generally good level of fitness (especially core). Her first 10km in October saw her struggle round in 53minutes. 2 months later she sub 2 hours a half marathon and could have gone quicker. That was 2 x runs per week (as that was all she could fit in to a schedule) made up of 1 x long run per month, and the rest heavy hill and speed work. They are the absolute key to nailing the run
 
Some of the people I know who do IM will get their running volume up in the low season such that every 2 weeks they will do a 20-22 mile long run at not much slower than their IM goal pace (since IM marathon pace is slower than open Marathon). And lots of Brick runs. Endurance is then in the bag, because the endurance tondo a good run really takes a long time to train for. As they get closer the frequency and distance of such long runs actually drops to allow better recovery, and the running focusses more on intensity and Bricks Running can "tick over" in the last few months while the cycling and swimming get more and more intense & long.

I train similarly for running marathons. The only really training cycle has mountains of volume with as many long runs as possible without any intensity at all. As I get closer training is more specific, with more intensity, more quality and race paced long runs. But my total run volume will drop and I get less long runs done. Then 3 weeks of run taper
 
Cheers for keeping the input going guys, making for an interesting topic... Crux of it being there are many ways to skin the cat. My training partner hasn't run recreationally for several years... about 5'2", 65kg and 54 years old and will only run on raceday... Crazy, he did the Lanzarote 70.3 with me in September then did nothing due to a couple of niggles then went and did Busselton Ironman, Austrailia in the Nov (dec maybe?) Sub13.

Just for reference... My yardstick if you like.
Beginning of November I did a lactate threshold test.

Threshold power
174bpm/235W/4 mmol/L
3.35W/Kg

Absolute power (3min)
194bpm/325W/14.1 mmol/L
4.64W/Kg

Plan to do exactly the same test around April time, stay tuned:D
 
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Feeling like my upper is massively behind what my lower can do. Legs have never really struggled this far so tried 3x12 today, adjusted the weights accordingly

3x12 80Kg squats
(3x12 170Kg leg press)*
3x12 30Kg overhead press
3x12 60Kg Lat pull downs

*Superset to hammer the legs

6x8 straight leg rasies
500m rowing
4k run

Been spending a lot of time on the foam roller and doing stretches.
Had a really promising hill session on the bike last week despite struggling to get HR much over threshold. Had a stinker of a cold this last few weeks mind.

Django x2 said:
have you any marathon / half marathon experience? Or bike for that matter? Both of those are fairly ambitious times for the full but not unachievable but you MUST focus more on the disciplines now rather than the strength training. The brick sessions now (before your half in May) are critical, especially the bike to run transition. Running training can't "tick over" either. Just putting miles in will not cut it. Speed and Hill work are the most critical component.

I've been coaching someone for a half marathon who as of June last year had never run in her life but had a generally good level of fitness (especially core). Her first 10km in October saw her struggle round in 53minutes. 2 months later she sub 2 hours a half marathon and could have gone quicker. That was 2 x runs per week (as that was all she could fit in to a schedule) made up of 1 x long run per month, and the rest heavy hill and speed work. They are the absolute key to nailing the run
Click to expand...

My last 70.3 was Lanzarote and I did 5:45. A lot more climbing there.

Interesting you advocate speed and hill work, I was going on the basis that slow and steady mileage will be more beneficial?
 
NoNameNoNumber said:
Interesting you advocate speed and hill work, I was going on the basis that slow and steady mileage will be more beneficial?
Click to expand...

Early stage should be base building, lots of aerobic volume at easy pace. Occasional hill or speed work is OK, but very light. Better than pure speed work would be some strides or surges, short enough to not stress you but fast enough to get a strong leg turnover. About 3 months out you can start adding some quality runs. 800m and 1 mile repeats, and lactate threshold runs. I woudln't go too hard on these, and do 2 quality runs in 10 days rather than 1 week. Taking cut-back weeks after 3 weeks including quality. The key predictor in performance will be your run volume (and not overdoing the bike), but some quality runs will improve efficiency and speed a little. It is run volume and quantity of long runs that will get you to the end of the marathon in OK shape. The speed work will make you slightly faster, but with that comes a risk of bonking. Of course if you kept the same pace as if you didn;t do the speed work, then it will help you get to the finish more comfortably and reduce bonk work. Basically run volume lets you run and run and run, efficiently and with less distress, quality runs might make you 5-10 seconds a mile faster but that comes with a greater risk of failure unless you kept the original pace. Furthermore, the quality runs don't make up for lack of run volume. More harder/faster runs doesn't replicate what can be achieved with run volume. However if you are extrmely limited on time then more quality work will be better than no quality and low volume. Which is why it is a double win to get run volume in early, and then as you get closer to race day when cycling and swimming are taking up more time and recovery, then fewer, shorter but faster runs like a tempo run can help.


EDIT: Part 2
I'm not a triathlete but did train that way for a while and have several dedicated IM friends, some with sub-10 hour finishes. In the early stages (e.g. 6 months out) when they have high volume of easy running, the swimming is focused on technique and some hard intervals, but total duration is not huge. The cycling similarly has high intensity, doing FTP building work blocks. Since the swimming and cycling have high intensity, you definitely don;t want the run to have high intensity. And since the swimming and cycling are shorter higher intensity , there is more time for runnign and long runs. As they get closer the swimming and cycling includes longer race paced efforts.. E.g. 3000-4000m swims, 6 hours cycle rides. When those start spearing in the schedule there is more recovery time needed and overall less time for running, and it is too much to do a 20 miles run and 6 hour cycle ride just few days apart or same weekend as would often be required. Well you can of course do this, but the recovery time increases a lot and so does injury risk. So as cycling and swimming increase in volume they start reducing run volume, and that is also when some quality/intensity in running pays off.

General run fitness and aerobic performance in running takes a very long time to build, and is based on high volume easy pace. The good thing is this base aerobic fitness will also remain for some time even when volume gets cut back. Slow to gain, slow to loose. And also near unlimited potential, you just keep gaining and gaining and gaining. In contrast, The higher intensity run workouts lead to fairly rapid gains in performance (speed and efficiency), but are also more rapidly lost when training intensity is reduced, and there is a lower limit on gains available within any 1 cycle. So doing too much intensity too soon wont gain you more performance, just higher injury risk and burnout. A shorter period closer to the race is when higher intensity runnign has the biggest advantage.
 
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I feel I have a good base, comfortable 10+ milers aplenty up until just before Christmas time when I picked up a knee niggle and no issues with the cycling distance although I haven't hit a 100 miler yet this year.
Swimming, I have always struggled in the pool and have been working on bilateral breathing, and technique. I'll get my 4k swims in come April time when the lake opens again. Not concerned about that and not trying to make too many gains here, my swim is by far the one I enjoy the least so I just want to get through it with minimal drama. 1:20 target time 1:30 worst case.

Problem I'm having with the run is in my left knee, it seems like it's ITB related so my stretching and foam rolling has been increased massively this last few weeks whilst my run has dropped off. I'll be seeing a sports physio shortly though as I am getting concerned about my running downtime.
Makes sense what you say about the high intensity short runs nearer the time, this is exactly how I played it last Sept. for my 70.3. Strong run base but running around town July and August chasing KOMs. Felt great and it meant I could get some pretty tough long bike /short run bricks together which I enjoyed although come raceday despite feeling fine and putting in a strong bike I just couldn't pick the run pace up. Heavy legs, as if my hip flexors had gone to sleep. Hence the 2hr half marathon :/

My work/training balance means everything I do is based on an 8 day cycle. 2 days, 2 nights, 4 off. So there's perhaps more recovery in there than most peoples plans as when I'm at work I tend to do the swimming and stretching more, between days and nights is long run day and then mid way through my 4 off is long ride day. Works well I feel, and never does it seem like the last session is impeding my next one.
 
1:20 to 1:30 swim time is decent. The thing with the swim is you have to put in a huge amount of work to gain 10-15 minutes. You can gain far more time on the bike or run.

With the knee you might need to take a 2-3 week break form running to see if it goes away. Check running form, cadence, intensity volume, shoe fit etc. There is a bit of a myth that running will always cause repetitive strain injuries and is bad for your knees etc. True, many people get injured but the fault normally lies with them and not the act of running itself. As well as the aforementioned reasons for injury, the common ones are increasing volume or amount if quality runnign too rapidly, or just doing too much intensity full stop. Of course hindsight makes diagnosis easier than prevention!
 
I have always run in Mizuno Wave inspire shoes but the longest I had ever done was the 2x13 mile runs in the 70.3s. Both times I felt comfortable but my feet were getting sore. Just after Christmas I went to a local running specialist (Lincolnshire Runner) for a gait analysis and came away with a new pair of Mizunos, can't remember the name but the brief was to get me a shoe that gives me the best stability and chances of finishing this marathon. Not run in them yet :/ Tried, Asics, Brooks and On. Of the 4 the On felt the nicest but froim the recording it was obvious the Mizunos were the shoe for me.

Agree 100% on the swim, the bilateral technique is nice just in case a bit of sea chop makes uni lateral breathing a pain but otherwise I am just trying to keep my swim technique improving whilst not really expecting any massive gains in overall speed. I'd much rather spend the time working on the other 11hrs of the day and coming out the water fresh. If that means a 1:45 so be it but I know I can hit the 1:20.

I have dropped mileage right off, down to 3-5 milers twice a week and 9-10 min/mile pace, not had any 'pain' since doing this but I can feel it isn't right. Bizarre as I have no previous of knee trouble and never felt anything go as such. Does feel like an overuse type of injury though, although I am happy to accept it is likely due to my poor focus stretching... Who knows, thus why I think I need to see a specialist.

Pains me to pay for a physio though when my mrs is a senior physio in the NHS, not interest in MSK/sports injuries though :(
 
If you're heavy legged off the bike, some of that is down to the bike fit (ie, get one). If you're on a TT and it's setup correctly, there will be little to no issue with the run bar maybe the 1st km or so. Normal Road or Endurance bikes will take longer (again, set up correctly, and leveraging aero bars and a good position, 5Km to get the legs into gear). I've got two sprint Tri's lined up between now and IM Austria in July and the London Marathon at the end of April.

It's good to get a couple of century rides in the 3 months up to your event (just so you know you can manage the distance bar 12 miles and a very rough idea on times/pace).

I really don't subscribe to powermeters, watt bikes or any of that stuff. Complete not compete is my strategy this year and then will look to baseline for the same course in 2019
 
I'm riding a TT bike, had a fit when I got it new last year but I feel I need to get a better more tri specific fit on it. You feel the run should be a smooth transition? Not sure I've ever felt like I'm flying in a race nor any brick sessions... Maybe I am just that bad at running!
Only events I have lined up thus far are
Lincolnshire arrow 100 mile sportive 29th April
70.3 Vietnam 13 May
140.6 Copenhagen 19 Aug

I train and rely on HR
 
Running shoes are a bit controversial. However, I strongly believe you should try as hard as possible to use a neutral shoe without support or correction. If stability is absolutely needed try the less supportive first. If your problems started after you git new shoes then you probably have your answer. Of course the running store may well be right and you need better support but this tends to be much rarer, and even if you have an imbalance forcing a correction may not be suitable.
 
Not the shoes then!

Did the pain start after you began the strength training? Like running, if you ramp up too much volume/weights and/or sue poor form then you can injure yourself. There is a link between squats and running. Squats are good for runners and hep strengthen many of the same joints/ligaments/muscles, but you are susceptible to much the same injuries if you are not careful.
 
The first time a felt the pain was after a cold 10 mile run, 8:20min/mile maybe 22nd Dec, around that time.... A few days later just a slight dull ache, thought nothing and went out on a 6 miler but only managed 4 with the knee pain... Did literally nothing until about the 10-12th Jan when I started at the gym. No pain from squats, swimming, cycling... Just running.
I have dropped the weight of all of my exercises and now doing 3x12 in an attempt to reduce the loading on my joints further.
 
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