Tried an Accord Type-R yesterday...

[TW]Fox said:
Actually I'd probably argue that mechanical part durability on a Honda is greater than that of a BMW.
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So would I, but in terms of rubber bushings and anti-roll bar links then I wouldn't, but then again my engineering understanding isnt probably as high as whatcar or autoexpress.

Please continue to state these points :p
 
Oh. Ummm. Yea. I've always thought the Japs have got mechanical engineering down to a fine art whilst the Germans instead spent all their time engineering cars that from the inside and the outside feel brilliantly engineered :p
 
Jonnycoupe said:
So would I, but in terms of rubber bushings and anti-roll bar links then I wouldn't, but then again my engineering understanding isnt probably as high as whatcar or autoexpress
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I feel shocked, hurt and abused that you would believe I'd ever buy either of those tabloid style publications :eek:
 
When you chaps have finished having a girly spat...

My take on the Honda is that it's a very good implementation, but of a fatally flawed solution. It is after all still a fwd car, however well it's been done.
Hence I stand by my statement that it's very good for what it is, but simply cannot compete with a well implemented rwd solution.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
When you chaps have finished having a girly spat...

My take on the Honda is that it's a very good implementation, but of a fatally flawed solution. It is after all still a fwd car, however well it's been done.
Hence I stand by my statement that it's very good for what it is, but simply cannot compete with a well implemented rwd solution.
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Conversly it beats a poorly implemented rwd solution.

This rwd or fwd isn't really that applicable in most peoples car requirements anyway I think. People do like to go on about' OMG rwd owns' too much.
 
Simon said:
Conversly it beats a poorly implemented rwd solution.

This rwd or fwd isn't really that applicable in most peoples car requirements anyway I think. People do like to go on about' OMG rwd owns' too much.
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I can't argue with you.
Clearly fwd has advantages of traction (under some conditions), packaging, costs, lower transmission losses and the fact that it's easier to deal with for the majority of drivers.
Making up for that you will always have the steering corrupted by the power from the engine in a fwd car, and the fact that it's easier to balance the weight distribution in a rwd car.

Back in the real world, most drivers clearly don't care about torque steer, as otherwise Seat would never sell a Cupra. So I guess that there's simply a low number of people who really are bothered.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
So would I, but in terms of rubber bushings and anti-roll bar links then I wouldn't, but then again my engineering understanding isnt probably as high as whatcar or autoexpress.
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Just so I don't get this confused, you mean to say you'd trust a BMW rubber bushing than a Honda one?

I got through my front wishbone rear bushes in 6,000 miles. If Honda are worse, I think I might start walking :p
 
Thing with light torque steer is you can be quite conscious of it at first, but then after a couple of hundred miles it no longer registers in the brain and you automatically just deal with it.

Heavier TS you'll always know about.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
and the fact that it's easier to balance the weight distribution in a rwd car.
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In a front engine setup that 'balancing' is only achieved by adding components and weight.

I was just suggesting that your test drive may have been corrupted by incorrect fuel choice and tyres which were off. I was trying to do you a favour.

There should be no squirming sensation, maybe only a pull to one side, whenever i feel that charaterstic squirm its the tyre pressure too low that has caused it.

What exactly is it competing at here anyway.
 
merlin said:
So FWD is the work of satan and an Accord isn't as chuckable as an MX5?
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fwd really is the work of Satan!

As for the Accord, for a saloon, I was very impressed. If anything it has the edge on the Bimmer for chuckability, for one thing, it's a good deal lighter.
However, the chuckability really doesn't make up for the deficiencies elsewhere.
As mentioned, for the price, I'd happily take the ATR over the equivalent BM. Once you exclude that and compare the ATR to a more expensive BM, it just can't hold it's own anymore.
Surely the fact that I'm even comparing the ATR with a 330i is testament to how much I rate one.
 
PMKeates said:
Just so I don't get this confused, you mean to say you'd trust a BMW rubber bushing than a Honda one?

I got through my front wishbone rear bushes in 6,000 miles. If Honda are worse, I think I might start walking :p
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Just the optimisation for the desired NVH requirements is likely to be more thorough in a BMW, little touchs that i guess make the BMW feel the better car. Thats the engineering.

The monkeys who build and make the bits tend to effect how well the design actually turns out. People involved so should never use trust in an emperical area.
 
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Mr_Sukebe said:
. Once you exclude that and compare the ATR to a more expensive BM, it just can't hold it's own anymore.
Surely the fact that I'm even comparing the ATR with a 330i is testament to how much I rate one.
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Not really, are your deciding to buy either or is this a pointless comparison as you're ignoring cost. Shall we raise a 911 to a BMW now?
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
Back in the real world, most drivers clearly don't care about torque steer, as otherwise Seat would never sell a Cupra. So I guess that there's simply a low number of people who really are bothered.
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Those Cupra's are stupidly fast though
 
Simon said:
Those Cupra's are stupidly fast though
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You're not wrong. Awesome drag cars, but I wouldn't want to drive one quickly down a windy road. If you want to impress your friends with a brilliantly fast motorway car, hard to beat.
 
Jonnycoupe said:
Not really, are your deciding to buy either or is this a pointless comparison as you're ignoring cost. Shall we raise a 911 to a BMW now?
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JC>
Sorry, you need to read from the start of this thread.
The background is a requirement for a 4 door, 4 seater car, Mundano sized. By default that excludes the 911, 5 series, any GT, sports car etc.
 
Mr_Sukebe said:
You're not wrong. Awesome drag cars, but I wouldn't want to drive one quickly down a windy road. If you want to impress your friends with a brilliantly fast motorway car, hard to beat.
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Damn - my sarcasm was lost :(
 
We tried out an Accord 2.0 VTEC the other day. I wanted to get out and have sex with the engine, so it's probably lucky we didn't find a Type-R to test.

I am currently taking a 9 mile journey to work rather than a 5 mile one because the engine in my Civic is just so rewarding to thrash, even if the car around it is falling to bits. I'm getting very worried by all this and might actually consider a Honda as a genuine purchase on the strength of the engine alone.
 
Going back to the 330i. Was it vanilla flavoured or did it have the M Sport stuff?

M Sport kitted ones are reasonably nimble but you've got to have XL rated tyres or something with naturally stiff sidewalls to get the turn in response and "feel".
 
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