Trying to rein in a friends build - spec:

[Plec]

Ok, this is a build i'm doing for a close friend whose pockets are very deep but who is sensible enough not to just throw money at anything that seems fastest on paper - but he does want cutting edge hardware. His other prerequisite is that the system should be quiet but with a minimalist look - so feel free to suggest an alternate case and fans. He mainly uses his system for demanding games and photoshop.

My aim is to get him the best value build possible - even though he has stressed he's not bothered - so it'll be me trying to keep the price within reasonable limits, as i still like to see value for money - even when money isn't an issue. With this and the above in mind i've put together the following build for some of you to maul over:

Note the gfx card will be replaced with an EVGA equivalent when they're stocked - as he may need the warranty for changing to a third party cooler

I've persuaded him to get the i920 as i've convinced him that clocking his system isn't an issue with the cooler i've selected and this will save him £250 over the i940. He wants a raid sytem and he know's nothing about SSD's - i haven't mentioned them because, if i did, he would want one (having said that he may be following this thread - and if he is sod off) - but i've yet to be convinced that they're a worthwhile expense from reading other threads. If a compelling arguemant comes along i may add it to his spec - other than 'it boots into windows in under xx seconds'. I've gone for 3 drives - 2 to be used in raid and 1 for photo and music backup.

I've had to talk him out of getting 12 gig of memory - and, if he is following this thread, anyone wanting to back me on this please feel free, as i'm sure he thinks i'm just trying to save him money...

I know very little about cases as it's something i very rarely upgrade, - my main concerns are that it looks tasteful, keeps the sytem cool and that it fits the cpu cooler i selected. His taste is conservative and either black or silver is fine - but no see through panels and that it's the size of a midi. My only concern about the case i've chosen is the 14cm fan at the front (i would like to change it) and the fact that it doesn't have a top venting fan. Is there a minimilist looking case that has one large intake at the front and 2 large exhaust fans: one at the rear and one at the top?

I've chosen the evga as the gfx make as i've just found out that it can have a third pary cooler added without effecting the warranty - so this brand is a must because if it proves to be noisy. Hopefully OC's will get them in stock by the time he's ready to order.


That's it boys and girls - dissect away...

 

[Plec]

Thanks for the tip Skinhead - i'll look into that.

I should have added that i would like the case to be easy to maintain - as it'll will probably be me that maintians it after i've built it.

 

[Plec]

though it is a little bit showy and has the viewing panel.... this can be solved by ordering a spare rear side panel from the Antec site which can be used on both sides....

Just had a look at the case, even with the new side added that case wouldn't be minimalist enough for what he wants.

Thanks for the great tip though as i may be able to apply it to other cases i may have otherwise dismissed.

 

[Plec]

A Silverstone Fortress kinda ticks the case boxes I think a 180mm in take fan and 180mm top exhaust with a 120mm fan at the rear.

Another concern is the PSU, I would be tempted to get an 850W minimum, but then I usually overspec mine and someone might tell you to stick with the one you have.

Any thoughts on 2xGTX260 EVGA 55nm SSC's? Seems that an EVGA 295 is about £450 and two GTX260's are less than £400 with a similar performance?



** Ahh ignore the case, noticed you said no window >< unless someone knows of a windowless version/new panel.. **

Thanks for the reply

I like the look of that case - and knowing now that i may be able to get a substitute side - it would deff be a conseration.

I've ruled out Sli purely so it eliminates any future hassles for me: one if the build goes badly or he gets problems in the future. I've only done one build with Sli and it took a lot of tweaking and still trips over. As he's got the money i'm cutting myself some slack

phill0i, i'll show him that one - that too looks a contender, thanks.

 

[Plec]

12 gig of RAM definately an utter waste of money, I'd even say 8gb is too excessive - 6gb is plenty for the foreseeable future!

How about 2 x 20" monitors in a dual screen setup rather than the 24" job? Probably be cheaper too, and makes for a more impressive desktop

Edit: Two of These perhaps?

Thanks for the agreement on memory.

And no, i hadn't thought about a dual monitor option - he may well go for that. But i imagine he would probably go for two 22" Dells. Thanks.

Thansk for the reply, icey_haj, yes i agree with you - but i can't shift him from the 295 as he's seen the reviews.

And i'll show him the NEC but he likes the look of the Dells.

 

[Plec]

What have you got against SSD drives? They're lightning in comparison. They are expensive still however so if it was me i'd be raiding 2 smaller SSD drives for my system drive and then something like a Samsung 1TB F1 for games, music, video etc.

2 of these in RAID http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-013-OC&groupid=701&catid=14&subcat=910

Nothing at all i wish i had a couple.

With regards to his build it's justifying the expense for the return he'll get for the way he uses his computer. But, likei said, if a compelling arguement is made for his usage i wouldn't rule it out.

If he's read your reply he's probably going to be ringing me tonight anyway.

 

[Plec]

JonJ678, do you use your vertex essentially for your OS and major apps - and how does photoshop fair?

If it wasn't for the fact that he uses photoshop i wouldn't have even put the SSD's into the mix as i see it as something he could add on later when the prices have dropped and the technology has advanced. (although i've read somewhere that one of the SSD brands has a free app that, if you run it, makes it as fast as the day it was bought?)

You make an interesting point about it being a premium build and it being limited by a lack of SSD - i may reconsider as, no matter what, it'll have a fun factor which is what he's also after. My main task would be trying to steer him clear of the 250gig version.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[Plec]

have a look at the i7 d0 stepping retail version.

case wise have a look at the akasa eclipse 62.

Thanks for the heads up - i basketed the wrong one.

case wise have a look at the akasa eclipse 62.

That too could work - certaily looks the part, thanks.

 

[Plec]

Yes, i agree.

I've mentioned the inherent dangers of having your backup as part of your main system but he hates clutter and cables. He's also used to the speed and immediacy of an internal backup drive as he has one in his present system.

I will mention it again before he puts his order through - the fact that someone else has mentioned it adds weight to my advice so he may well think again.

 

[Plec]

That is both shiny, sleek and petite - that could very well appeal. Thanks.

Increases my chances...

 

[Plec]

Hehe, and 3 sets of memory

Edit: don't forget the monitor

Re-edit - oops - just read your NEC edit

 

[Plec]

I've gone for this slightly more expensive build. I have added an SSD for OS drive for an extra speed boost. This then allows the other 3 HDs to be run in RAID 5 for data and backup etc. 12GB of ram might be useful since he uses photoshop, which means he could then run it in a ramdisk which would be ridiculously quick.

Hehe, I'm trying to rein him in and you've just taken him off the leash, Happy. He's so far up the park i'll never get him back

I wish that was my build let alone his. That's a great call using the memory but then i would have to back track on all my sage advice about only needing 6 gig - he'ld never let me forget it.

This SSD keeps appearing - and i'm starting to get intrigued by it's speed benifits myself so i may pitch the idea to him, quietly (but no one mention an SSD raid again - otherwise he may think it's the norm.)

Thanks for the post Happy - i'll have a closer look at the NEC too - aesthetically it works and if it's as good as it's reviews he may reconsider the Dell.

 

[Plec]

If money is no object then why not go for a 30" monitor?

He just has deep pockets - he still has limits, though i've yet to witness them.

why not go for a 30" monitor? Especially if its for games and photoshop - the 295 is ideally suited to a larger resolution.

True, and TBH, i don't know - i think it's just the general idea of something that big only being a foot or so away form your face. He's upgrading from a 19" monitor so the jump to 24" will be significant.

I'm going to mention the dual monitor set up to him as it's something i neglected to mention when discussing his options - he may well go for that set up.

 

[Plec]

Hehe - you guys are not helping my original cause here - the hint was in the thread title and the b***ard, that is my friend, has now found the thread.

sk3lph, he's read your post with interest and is probably cutting out paper in the screens dimensions as i type.

Well, the games well and truely up on the SSD although, even he bulks at the price to space ratio. I'll read some more threads on the hdd forums and try and work out what would be a happy balance for him. If he's going to get one he may as well do it properly.

I've explained the theory behind Happy's ram disk suggestion so 12 gig may be in the running again - although i'm still advising against it.

My concern with this, is the stability issue of using all 6 slots - memory and I don't get on, and buying six sticks of the stuff i'm bound to have one stick that's going to be a prima donna and be a pain to get operating as part of a sextuplet. As mentioned, it's not a done deal as i still think it's something that could be added at a later date when we know the system is fully stable. It would certainly make the build less stressful for me...

Thanks for the suggestions guys - they are all appreciated, jokes aside.

 

[Plec]

Thanks for the reply, Happy.

Yes, only to approx 3GHz - and i'm only doing that to appease his appetite for the i940.

It's me being unreasonably pessimistic more than anything - i just don't like filling up all available ram slots:

1. for the reason you have already stated
2. it can even be a battle to get the system stable even with the system set at stock.
3. did i mention that memory and i don't get on.

My pessimism may well get pushed aside as he understands the added risk 6 sticks will have - i.e. with potetntial clocking and getting the system stable. So this restrained build may yet turn into an uber spec. I must admit i'm looking forward to building it - it's been years since i built a truely cutting edge machine.

 

[Plec]

Cheers Happy, i'll take alook as it's the one thing i'm really undecided on.

He's going to take my lead on the case as i'll be the one working on it and upgrading it in the future - so i'm trying to fit both our needs.

And i'm actually getting pretty excited about the build - there's a flip side in that i'll probably want one and it would be hard justifying it to the wife - especially as i want to build a HTPC to replace our aging, modded, Topfield.

Edit: i just thought I could b*stardise my existing rig for the HTPC as the E5200 would be perfect for it - except i wanted a passively cooled system and a micro-atx... Hmmm, this may require more thought before i try and bamboozle her with technical nonsense which swings the arguement my way. Trouble is i've been doing this so long she's picked up enough aquired knowlege to judge if i was making stuff up...

 

[Plec]

Just unplug the ATX 24pin connector and tell her the motherboard capacitor memory has gone, and blown the cpu and how it would be just as cheap to build a new one then replace the old one.

Then 2 weeks later tell her you discovered the motherboard and CPU had some warranty left and they got replaced, so we can use this old box as a server after all!

Hehe, tempting but i've grown accustomed to my genitals - i particularly like their location and that they're actually attached to my body.

Apart from losing parts of my anatomy i would have other, admittedly smaller, problems (that pun was not intended):

I've not done all the proper research yet but i'll be getting this case Antec Fusion Remote HTPC Case - so i would need a micro-atx mobo and i may be limited with cooling options, unfortunately. We're use to a very quiet pvr as i replaced the Topfield's harddrive for a 500gig sata western digital green - so my wife's only request is that it's as unobtrusive as what we have already - which is asking a lot as the Topfield has zero fans.

 

[Plec]

The technology is pretty hot now. The south bridge can't cope with more than 3 vertex drives, the graphs over in the hardware section are astonishing. Photoshop in ramdisk is a bad call, simply because computers *cough windows cough* crash, power fails, fuses blow etc. All data gone isn't funny. Lost an hours work once, not putting important things onto ramdisk again.

I've got XP and ubuntu running off mine. Ubuntu is ludicrous, it's just completely unnecessary to run it on a ssd. I don't use photoshop, design for me is pieces of metal rather than colours. CAD programs feel a lot nicer on the ssd than on a hard drive, Rotation and so forth is the same, but saving/loading large files is much improved. Windows boot time is rather swift too, post takes longer than windows.

It's OCZ that have released the 'trim' tool which does this, but it'll eventually make its way into windows anyway. I'm not sure better than vertex would make a difference but do not know.

Thanks for the comprehensive reply, JonJ678.

The SSD is fast becoming a must have item for him. I think your post may prove to be the decider - you've even made me want one and i was the one that needed convincing just to place one into his spec...

That and the fact that windows 7 seems to take an age to boot.

Ah based on the case, the best low profile cooler is probably the Scythe Mini Ninja, in terms of the noise from the case, if you 5v the Noctua fans you won't be able to hear them over the other components.

Thanks again Happy, i was looking at the Ninja but I hadn't made the mental jump yet to modding a Noctua fan to the case - geat tip, appreciated.

 

[Plec]

Thanks for the update JonJ678.

nLite is a great bit of software - and with the simplicity of your windows setup on the SSD it should be pretty straight forward to configure? I admire the purity of your set up - you certainly have taken any ambiguity out of the operating system on that drive, i think it would be fast without the SSD.

I think my friend will obviously be more brutal in his approach and use it as his primary OS (and probably his only OS as i don't live close enough) but only add photoshop and office on to it. I'll raid the other drives for his games, other apps and backup.

This thread has come full circle - the pressure is now on him to get one - and i suspect it will be just the one.

When he's fully commited to his choices i'll let you know - but he's got a month to mull them over. I'm just putting the feelers out so he can clarify what it is that he wants, by the time he's ready to buy it'll probably be a brute of a machine. I'm the one holding the build up as he's got to wait on me having a couple of free days to devote to it as he's 80 odd miles north of me in Sommerton.

When you start building it, create a build log thread!

If i did it will probably be along the lines of:

• These are the parts - nice assorted pics
• This is the completed build - pics
• Now these are the problems i'm having - pics of bottles of bud by BSOD.

I'll deff do a thread of some sort, if only to ask how to cable tidy successfully. I'm notoriously bad at it - through lack of patience as much as skill. I better take a trip to youtube as somebody with OCD has probably uploaded an 'idiots guide' to cable tidying. And with, potentially, 4 HDD's being fitted my limited skills will be sorely tested.

Thanks again guys.

 

[Plec]

Well he's getting ready to buy...

JonJ678, which is the best 30gig SSD - the OCZ Vertex Series 30GB 2.5" SATA-II Solid State Hard Drive? (He's still quite keen on the idea.)

He's dropped the idea of 12 gig of memory - and decided to go for 6gig. Boringly sensible i know - but i'm happier - he can add it later. (although he does keep bringing it up)

He has also decided to get a full tower - with that in mind which black coloured tower is easy to work on and is minimilist in style - no windowed sides (not necessarily a doored front.) I was thinking of this one, Silverstone Fortress FT01B-W Tower Case with Window, as long as i can change the glass panel for a solid one?

And, lastly, which is the quietest 295 out at the moment - it turns out he's not keen on me stripping it apart if it doesn't need it - the woos!