Trying to start the 214's engine...
- Thread starter -westy-
- Start date
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- 11 Nov 2005
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- 362
-westy- said:
ahh, but when a battery is upside down, what happens to the acid inside it? it leaks, unless its sealed battery which cant be topped up.
- Joined
- 11 Nov 2005
- Posts
- 362
-westy- said:Its sealed
you sure its got no removable panels? which can make it look like its a sealed one and is it still very heavy ?
if its not that then wack (HARD!!!) the starter with a heavy bar. or bump it down the road.
tickle me elmo said:
As said above, you need to make sure that the engine isnt turning over for a reason first - if something (like water) is physically stopping it from turning over you will turn a few bits and pieces into nice pretzel shapes if you try and bump it.
Follow the sound advice above, whip out the plugs, try again and report back.
I am extremely surprised at the total lack of understanding of the folks in this thread.
Let me restate that myself :
THE ENGINE SAT UPSIDE DOWN FOR 15 MINUTES!!!
The engine has hydraulicised. What this means is that while the engine was positioned in the upside down position, all the oil in the sump was dumped into the cylinders.
What is causing the engine not to turn over is the fact that you have punched the compression ratio up to about 500:1 due to all the oil on top of the pistons.
If you DO actually get it to turn over, there will be no amount of money or technology in the world will make it run again.
The one and only way to fix it is to take ALL of the spark plugs out of the engine and turn it over for 30 seconds at a time with a 5 minute rest time (to let the starter cool) in between for about a total of 30 times. Then pour some VERY thin fluid (naptha gas of mineral spirits will work) in each and every one of the spark plug holes (to dilute any remaining oil) and then repeat the turn-over/rest sequence again.
Of course it goes without saying that safety is paramount and the fact that you'll be spraying VERY volitile fluids in a gaseous form all around the engine bay means NO SMOKING. And to be sure, pulling the fuse from the ignition coil is mandatory.
Once you have done that, drain the sump, change the oil, drain and change the coolant, then put NEW spark plugs back in (as the old ones will be permenantly fouled with oil) and THEN try starting it.
Any further attempts to start the car before doing what I detailed above will only result in multiple holes being punched in ALL of the pistons to relieve the pressure. We're talking about THOUSANDS of PSI here. If you're LUCKY, you'll blow the ceramic insulators apart on your spark plugs (putting them clean right through your bonnet like a gunshot) to relieve the pressure. If not, it'll be your pistons that'll go.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER ANYMORE!!!
Not until you're got that oil out of the cylinders, anyways.........
-westy- said:
Let me restate that myself :
THE ENGINE SAT UPSIDE DOWN FOR 15 MINUTES!!!
The engine has hydraulicised. What this means is that while the engine was positioned in the upside down position, all the oil in the sump was dumped into the cylinders.
What is causing the engine not to turn over is the fact that you have punched the compression ratio up to about 500:1 due to all the oil on top of the pistons.
If you DO actually get it to turn over, there will be no amount of money or technology in the world will make it run again.
The one and only way to fix it is to take ALL of the spark plugs out of the engine and turn it over for 30 seconds at a time with a 5 minute rest time (to let the starter cool) in between for about a total of 30 times. Then pour some VERY thin fluid (naptha gas of mineral spirits will work) in each and every one of the spark plug holes (to dilute any remaining oil) and then repeat the turn-over/rest sequence again.
Of course it goes without saying that safety is paramount and the fact that you'll be spraying VERY volitile fluids in a gaseous form all around the engine bay means NO SMOKING. And to be sure, pulling the fuse from the ignition coil is mandatory.
Once you have done that, drain the sump, change the oil, drain and change the coolant, then put NEW spark plugs back in (as the old ones will be permenantly fouled with oil) and THEN try starting it.
Any further attempts to start the car before doing what I detailed above will only result in multiple holes being punched in ALL of the pistons to relieve the pressure. We're talking about THOUSANDS of PSI here. If you're LUCKY, you'll blow the ceramic insulators apart on your spark plugs (putting them clean right through your bonnet like a gunshot) to relieve the pressure. If not, it'll be your pistons that'll go.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO TURN THE ENGINE OVER ANYMORE!!!
Not until you're got that oil out of the cylinders, anyways.........
Soldato
- Joined
- 2 Mar 2004
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- 11,919
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- SE England
Yay, my first post was almost right then.
Apart from the water bit
MickeyD - does the oil 'seep' past the rings then, from sitting on the bottom of the pistons, or does it enter through any valves that might be left open, or some other route?
Apart from the water bit
MickeyD - does the oil 'seep' past the rings then, from sitting on the bottom of the pistons, or does it enter through any valves that might be left open, or some other route?
If the engine still won't turn over, then nothing has been blown yet.
What will be the first indicator of something seruously wrong is when the engine DOES turn over. That's when you'll know that you've blown the pistons.
Just follow the procedure I outlined and you'll have it running in less than a day.
Yes, I've had to do this before. Remember, I'm an avid four wheeler. 4WD Jeeps DO end up on thier roofs!! And it generally is in an area that a normal wrecker cannot get to, so it takes some ingenious work by other four wheelers to get you shiny side up and rubber side down again. Which takes time........
I've had to do this to three engines that were oil hydro'd and two that were water hydro'd. All five were back to running order in no time after completing the procedure I previously outlined.
You CAN condense the procedure down to just pulling the plugs and turning it over for about 30 seconds then putting new plugs in, but you'll have to have the car outside when you DO go to fire it up as the amount of smoke that will come billowing out will be incredible!! But it won't cause any damage to your engine internals doing it that way, only any exhaust sensors if it is fuel injected. The Lambda (O2) sensor is the primary one I'm thinking of here. It's also not too healthy for the catalytic converter.
But if the engine will be going into another car anyways, who gives a **** about those components?
What will be the first indicator of something seruously wrong is when the engine DOES turn over. That's when you'll know that you've blown the pistons.
Just follow the procedure I outlined and you'll have it running in less than a day.
Yes, I've had to do this before. Remember, I'm an avid four wheeler. 4WD Jeeps DO end up on thier roofs!! And it generally is in an area that a normal wrecker cannot get to, so it takes some ingenious work by other four wheelers to get you shiny side up and rubber side down again. Which takes time........
I've had to do this to three engines that were oil hydro'd and two that were water hydro'd. All five were back to running order in no time after completing the procedure I previously outlined.
You CAN condense the procedure down to just pulling the plugs and turning it over for about 30 seconds then putting new plugs in, but you'll have to have the car outside when you DO go to fire it up as the amount of smoke that will come billowing out will be incredible!! But it won't cause any damage to your engine internals doing it that way, only any exhaust sensors if it is fuel injected. The Lambda (O2) sensor is the primary one I'm thinking of here. It's also not too healthy for the catalytic converter.
But if the engine will be going into another car anyways, who gives a **** about those components?
Dave L said:
Yes, i'd be interested - give me an email on [email protected] if you're interested - can't buy or sell on the forums..
SgtTupac said:Goto local halfords or motor factors. Get some "easy start" get someone to spray into inlet manifold whilst turning over.. It WILL start.. BUT it will probaly never run again
How WILL it start if the engine is hydralicly locked? If it doesn't turn over in the first place, no easy start is going to get into the cylinders.
I simply can't believe how long this thread is and some of the silly advice. Read and absorb Mickey_D's post and remove the spark plugs. It takes all of a minute or so to do and will confirm if this is the problem or not...what is so complicated about this?
