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TSMC saying chips made in US will cost 30% more

Soldato
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22 Oct 2008
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Lisburn, Northern Ireland
Expect prices to be passed on to customers
According to DigiTimes, TSMC will charge an extra 30 per cent more for chips made in its American plants than those made in Taiwan.



TSMC has started discussions with customers about orders and pricing for its overseas plants, which are set to begin commercial production in late 2024.
The rumours are that prices of chips produced using TSMC's N4 and N5 technologies in the US will be 20-30 per cent higher than those in Taiwan, while older process chips produced in Japan's Kumamoto facility on N28/N22, as well as N16/N12 nodes, may cost 10-15 per cent more.
American chip designers are unlikely to care much because they should be able to pass those extra costs on to their customers without risking their competitive positions. Given the high construction and operational costs of fabs in Japan and the US, TSMC will pass those extra expenses on to customers to maintain its gross margin target of 53 per cent.



Wow, someone's in for a shock when the products are sitting on shelves and not selling, if they think they can pass on costs to customers. Don't they see it's starting to happen already with high prices being touted by Nvidia and AMD?
 
AFAIK the capacity of the fabs isn't as big as the Taiwanese ones too.So probably they will be used for security criticial chips? I think Taiwan is wary of exporting too much of its infrastructure abroad,lest foreign countries learn their secrets,and need less reliance on made in Taiwan chips.
 
I think a lot of companies (and by extension shareholders, etc.) are going to run into a hard realisation over the coming years they won't be able to sustain current or future projected profit margins as their customers feel the squeeze and eventually they'll have to face balancing more realistic margins and doing more to improve the efficiency and so on of the company or risk going to the wall.

Consumers generally are feeling a terrific squeeze and if companies think they can operate without also being affected by that they have their eyes closed. (Some are probably trying to make bank in the short term by squeezing for all they can before they are forced to change).
 
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Wow, someone's in for a shock when the products are sitting on shelves and not selling, if they think they can pass on costs to customers. Don't they see it's starting to happen already with high prices being touted by Nvidia and AMD?
Lets say you have a 330mm^2 (6700XT) GPU die, so 12 x 28.

Out of a typical 300mm wafer that's about 170 GPU dies, lets say that wafer costs $10,000, that's $59 per die. add 30% to that and its $76.

On a $400 GPU if vendor and customer share those inflated costs that $400 GPU now costs $410.
 
Probably same for most things not made in China. That said, we need to do it.

I would imagine that shipping from China costs a lot too. If the US had the complete production chain such as building PCBs etc than that would money too especially since much of that work is now done by machine no longer hand
 
I've said it for years now. We're heading back to the kind of economy of my youth. Higher prices, longer lasting goods, more repairs and less waste. Ironically this is all very "green", but it will come as a big shock to the fast fashion, throw away generations.

The effect can be seen in AM5 motherboards, I'm sure the jacked up pricing is not just higher manufacturing costs. If boards are going to last twice as long consumers are buying half as many, to preserve their revenue they have to double the prices. Expect to see a lot more of this as more manufacturing is onshored.
 
I don't like this complete dependence on China for all our manufacturing, i never did. Its idiotic.

Lets bring some, or a lot, of those jobs and skills home.

IMO globalisation is a failed experiment, it doesn't bring world peace, people still fight for political control and resorces, as they always have, only this time we have made ourselves dependant on people with very different political ambitions to ours, how arrogant of us to assume we could shape the whole world in our own image, yes some will see that as western imperialism. It kinda is!
 
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I've said it for years now. We're heading back to the kind of economy of my youth. Higher prices, longer lasting goods, more repairs and less waste. Ironically this is all very "green", but it will come as a big shock to the fast fashion, throw away generations.

The effect can be seen in AM5 motherboards, I'm sure the jacked up pricing is not just higher manufacturing costs. If boards are going to last twice as long consumers are buying half as many, to preserve their revenue they have to double the prices. Expect to see a lot more of this as more manufacturing is onshored.


As someone who will wear a pair of shoes until it falls apart, I look forward to higher quality longer lasting shoes even if they cost more
 
i used to buy proper HiFi stack systems that were made in the USA, Germany, UK or Japan.

Beautiful machines with superb build quality, expensive yes, but these were machines that you bought for life. The last one i owned was 20 years old by the time i sold it on, including a CD player, used almost every day and still working as new.

if i ever get a detached house again i'm getting another one, even if i can only get one used from a HiFi specialist, i miss the sound quality, and my floor heaving, the walls bowing from the sound pressure.
 
AFAIK the capacity of the fabs isn't as big as the Taiwanese ones too.So probably they will be used for security criticial chips? I think Taiwan is wary of exporting too much of its infrastructure abroad,lest foreign countries learn their secrets,and need less reliance on made in Taiwan chips.
If only the west had seen it the same way for the past 40 years.
 
I've said it for years now. We're heading back to the kind of economy of my youth. Higher prices, longer lasting goods, more repairs and less waste. Ironically this is all very "green", but it will come as a big shock to the fast fashion, throw away generations.

The effect can be seen in AM5 motherboards, I'm sure the jacked up pricing is not just higher manufacturing costs. If boards are going to last twice as long consumers are buying half as many, to preserve their revenue they have to double the prices. Expect to see a lot more of this as more manufacturing is onshored.

But also the wages won't go up because of the obsession about margins. Most of the jobs which went abroad were not unprofitable and were reasonably well paid.

They were not profitable enough. Big difference.

The obsessive need to push margins due to stock market speculation lead to this.

People can't pay more because they are not earning enough like in those Rose tinted days older people have. The extent of the rot in wages, and the fact many things have already gone up massively in the last decade has been hidden by cheap credit due to massive QE.

So with less QE and higher interest rates, where is this magical money tree for people to pay much more?

Housing and transport alone are disportionately expensive. Cheap credit has destroyed the housing market for young people. The rents are insane.

So all this won't mean diddly squat if it does not equate to real wage growth and actual job creation. If it only means a few jobs are created and most are automated, no the majority won't put up with being made poorer. The greedy companies are now trying to use AI to replace many qualified jobs.

If the young can only see economic misery than its going to lead to real problems.They will despise the older generations more and more.

I am all for more manufacturing sent back as it is more secure and greener.

But, it has to come with economic benefits for the average person. If tens of millions of well paid manufacturering jobs are not created in the west over the next decade then all people will see is stuff becoming less affordable as their wages don't even keep up with inflation.

If its still the low wage economy where wages are depressed due to corporate greed, then the average person won't benefit from it.

If only the west had seen it the same way for the past 40 years.
But ThE sToCk MaRkEt.
 
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But also the wages won't go up because of the obsession about margins. Most of the jobs which went abroad were not unprofitable.

They were not profitable enough. Big difference.

The obsessive need to push margins due to stock market speculation lead to this.

People can't pay more because they are not earning enough like in those Rose tinted days older people have. The extent of the rot in wages, and the fact many things have already gone up massively in the last decade has been hidden by cheap credit due to massive QE.

So with less QE and higher interest rates, where is this magical money tree for people to pay much more?

Housing and transport alone are disportionately expensive. Cheap credit has destroyed the housing market for young people. The rents are insane.

So all this won't mean diddly squat if it does not equate to real wage growth and actual job creation. If it only means a few jobs are created and most are automated, no the majority won't put up with being made poorer.
If the young can only see economic misery than its going to lead to real problems.


In the 1960's a family would be comfortable with just the fathers full time wages and perhaps some very part time work by the mother.

That balance has steadily shifted over the decades to the point now where both parents working full time the family struggles to live comfortably, while at the same time the 1% have increased their wealth exponentially.

They still don't think its gone far enough, as the Bank of England said "you're just going to have to accept you're poorer now" guess who isn't....
Government debt is another problem, their wielding of soft power both abroad and at home is very expensive, it gives millions of nepotistic administrative types high paying jobs they otherwise would not have, the very over taxed public funds are still not enough to pay for all that #### so they print vast amounts of money to pay for it which in turn devalues the money in our pockets, "Inflation" and they also don't think they have gone far enough with that.
 
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In the 1960's a family would be comfortable with just the fathers full time wages and perhaps some part time work by the mother.

That balance has steadily shifted over the decades to the point now where both parents working for time the family struggles to live comfortably, while at the same time the 1% have increased their wealth exponentially.

They still don't think its gone far enough, as the Bank of England said "you're just going to have to accept you're poorer now" guess who isn't....
Government debt is another problem, their wielding of soft power both abroad and at home is very expensive, it gives millions of nepotistic administrative types high paying jobs they otherwise would not have, the very over taxed public funds are still not enough to pay for all that #### so they print vast amounts of money to pay for it which in turn devalues the money in our pockets, "Inflation" and they also don't think they have not gone far enough with that.
For many years I have been for more jobs to be sent back here,because it is more secure and greener(due to shorter transport links),but it has to come with job creation too. If it all means it is highly automated and AI replaces a lot of roles,who has benefited financially from all of this?

I am also not 100% against globalisation,because it probably makes sense to do certain things abroad,and spread some wealth around the world(a less poorer world will hopefully make things more stable). But the wholesale destruction of jobs in many countries,with no Plan B is utterly ridiculous.

The big issue is speculation on profits and margins. Just look at companies such as Apple and Nvidia? They were already doing well a decade ago. Look at now? But despite this they try to raise prices more and more,and give you less for more,even if sales go down. Why? Because no amount of margins is enough for the speculative stock market. Even 100% net margins won't be enough,because next year you need 101% net margins.

Sub-prime was caused by speculation on toxic debts. The 1929 crash was due to a speculative stock market boom,fed by lots of debt.

Decades ago,the speculative needs were far less,as was the amount of money printing.

This has been aided and abetted by governments who printed tons of money. Most of that printed money wasn't used to increase wages. It was given to the top few percent,companies,etc who have dined on it for decades. It's been behind cheap credit,which has masked how poor wages in many western countries have become.

Even you have noticed how one wage was enough to run a family.
 
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"Trickle down economics"

We take your money in the form of taxes, give it to the wealthy, the wealthy then buy your goods and services, with your money.

We are the idiots for constantly voting for these people and sucking #### like that ^^^^ up like the suckers we are.

I'm going to shut up now before i get too carried away :D

Also known as "Trickle Up economics". The only thing that trickles down to the plebs like us is piddle.
 
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