TTIP

Negotiations have stalled apparently. The deal is stacked in favour of the US and they're not willing to have more equal terms supposedly.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/03/world/europe/ttip-greenpeace-leak-trade-deal.html

A US take on the leaks and trade deal.

In one of the negotiating documents — a chapter on “Sanitary and Phytosanitary Measures” — American negotiators made repeated references to improving cooperation over “products of modern agricultural technology.”

The United States proposal “clearly indicates their pressure to get rid of trade barriers for genetically modified organisms,” Jorgo Riss, the director of Greenpeace’s European unit, said in a telephone interview. The proposal also refers to a “Global Low Level Presence Initiative,” which Mr. Riss said was an American-backed initiative to gain global acceptance of agricultural exports containing traces of unauthorized genetically modified organisms.

In general, opposition to genetically modified organisms, or G.M.O.s, tends to be stronger in Europe than in the United States. Mr. Riss acknowledged there was no direct reference to G.M.O.s in the documents but said the language clearly was aimed at promoting their acceptance.
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Many prominent members of the Conservative party support more widespread use of GMOs, and both the Cons and Lab are pro GM. The EU as a whole is not and there are EU regulations against the use of GM crops in Europe (and the UK).

http://www.arc2020.eu/2015/05/where-do-the-uk-political-parties-stand-on-gm/

Owen Paterson (the former Secretary of State for environment, food and rural affairs) caused a political storm a couple of years ago when he stated his outright support for GM, as well as openly referring to anti-GM activists and other environmentalists as ‘the Greenblob’ and ‘wicked’. He argued that as a result of the anti-GM movement, which has prevented the introduction of ‘Golden Rice’ (a GM grain) around the world, ‘over the last 15 years…7 million children have gone blind or died’ – a claim wholly without evidence [3]. The remarks saw a fellow Conservative MP accuse him of being an ‘industry puppet’, despite this, it seems that Prime-Minister (PM) and Conservative Party leader supports Paterson’s position on GM. He even stated that he was ‘perfectly happy’ to feed his family GM food [4]. The PM office further stated that there is ‘no credible basis’ for the claims that GM crops were not safe [5]. More recently, Paterson’s successor Elizabeth Truss has argued in favour of the introduction of GM foods because they are more ‘eco-friendly’. This suggests that Conservative policy on GM is not going to change any time soon. The Party Manifesto simply states, ‘we will support a science-led approach to GM-crops’
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Perhaps the most sensitive issues are outlined in a document describing the “tactical state of play” on both sides. The document says, for example, that different approaches to animal testing “remain irreconcilable.” Many American-made cosmetics use ultraviolet filters, for which animal testing is used to assess safety; the European Union bans such testing on animals.
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The conservatives are pro fox hunting and are rolling out a badger cull that is contrary to all scientific evidence and trials.

Greenpeace accused the American negotiators of trying to weaken environmental protection standards; of taking a laxer approach to product regulation than the Europeans; and of trying to give corporate lobbyists greater say in decision-making.
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Considering the UK government have repealed EU based laws against the use of pesticides that are strongly linked to the decline in bees, because of lobbying by the NFU (farming lobby), I'd suggest the EU is probably the lesser of the two evils once again.

The group said the documents showed the Americans were proposing to allow corporations to “petition” for the repeal of a regulation if it was “more burdensome than necessary to achieve its objective,” given its impact on trade. The documents also showed, it said, that the Europeans had proposed allowing certain environmental standards to be deemed “technical barriers to trade,” which could weaken labels requiring the disclosure of the climate footprint of a product or service.
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Sounds like "cutting red tape for businesses". Wasn't that one of the manifesto promises by the Conservatives in the last election?
 
The TTIP will make mega-Corporations a law unto themselves, untouchable by Laws or Govt. it will even enable them to sue any Govt. (You the TAX Payer...) that does not act in their interests. It is the epitome of Profit over People.
 
RaohNS said:
This is a conspiracy theory. TTIP is nothing of the sort. It promotes free trade and enterprise and backs fair practice in law. TTIP is a good thing indeed.
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On the whole it's probably good, but take food for instance. Lots of things go into US food and animal feed that are banned in Europe on health grounds. So there would need to be provisions to stop the 'bad' food being imported into the EU.
 
Lol at the brexiters stating TTIP as a reason to leave the EU, when in all likelihood if we leave the EU we'll have a TTIP style deal in place quicker than if we remained in. The Tories (esp the leave EU faction) LOVE the principles of the TTIP.
 
amigafan2003 said:
Lol at the brexiters stating TTIP as a reason to leave the EU, when in all likelihood if we leave the EU we'll have a TTIP style deal in place quicker than if we remained in. The Tories (esp the leave EU faction) LOVE the principles of the TTIP.
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And we can vote them out. We can't do that with the bung holes in charge of Europe.
 
Dis86 said:
And we can vote them out. We can't do that with the bung holes in charge of Europe.
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And at any point in the future (or in the past) we can vote out pro EU governments and replace them with an EU Exit government.

We have a referendum coming it is not a declaration that the UK will want to be a member state for all eternity and under any circumstances.
 
stewski said:
And at any point in the future (or in the past) we can vote out pro EU governments and replace them with an EU Exit government.

We have a referendum coming it is not a declaration that the UK will want to be a member state for all eternity and under any circumstances.
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no but it is going to become harder in future, we're going to become more more linked to them when we could be opening up greater trade with the rest of the world... and if the euro area countries go for further integration then as a block their interests and ours won't necessarily be in line, being half in the club and potentially with rather different needs/wants isn't going to be great either. I think we're better off getting out now because further down the road we're either going to have to integrate further or get out when it is even harder/riskier to do so.
 
RaohNS said:
This is a conspiracy theory. TTIP is nothing of the sort. It promotes free trade and enterprise and backs fair practice in law. TTIP is a good thing indeed.
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TTIP explicitly includes exactly what the post you're replying to refers to - it gives businesses the right to sue countries for perceived loss of profits due to decisions a government makes. That's part of the point of it and one of the things that's being argued over is how such cases would be heard. Not whether or not such cases should exist - they're a required part of TTIP - but who should judge them.

While it could be said that the whole thing is a conspiracy since elected politicians aren't even allowed to see it, the general principles of it are quite open and businesses suing countries is one of them, as is removing as many protections as possible from employees, animals and the environment because those protections reduce profits. Which is "free trade and enterprise", of course, and what "fair practice" means depends on who is defining "fair".
 
stewski said:
Don't the current UK government agree with TTIP?

Currently France look the best bet at kicking it into touch.
http://www.theguardian.com/business...-ttip-as-france-threatens-to-block-eu-us-deal

So much for a vote for the EU is a vote for TTIP...
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Yes, but the Brexit idea I often hear is: BoJo as PM will say no to TTIP or a similar bi-lateral deal. We'll see.

As for TTIP: if it perishes now, another attempt will be made that's less comprehensive with an option to expand. It's too much growth to just pass up to history. If Trump rules, then it'll be a while: he is keen on tariffs, on-shoring jobs and trade wars in his rhetoric; Hillary would be more amenable to continuing the Democrat strategy, obviously.
 
The conservatives are pro-TTIP. Always have been, and still are.

Let's get that one out of the way.

As for the "mainstream media not reporting it" lulwhut?! Just go to google news and search for TTIP to see links from every news source out there. Problem is, it's bit tricky to report on something being kept a secret.

Until someone leaks all the documents, that is. Expect more news in the coming days once those that speak legalese have digested the documents.

Then we'll get TTIPmk2 under a new name, something like "Child protection trade agreements, don't like this? You're a paedo!" name.
 
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Dj_Jestar said:
The conservatives are pro-TTIP. Always have been, and still are.

Let's get that one out of the way.

As for the "mainstream media not reporting it" lulwhut?! Just go to google news and search for TTIP to see links from every news source out there. Problem is, it's bit tricky to report on something being kept a secret.

Until someone leaks all the documents, that is. Expect more news in the coming days once those that speak legalese have digested the documents.

Then we'll get TTIPmk2 under a new name, something like "Child protection trade agreements, don't like this? You're a paedo!" name.
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Leaks, you say? https://www.ttip-leaks.org/.
 
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