TUPE / Redundancy Questions

FARGO

FARGO

FARGO

Associate
Joined
5 Aug 2010
Posts
1,993
Hey all,

Just looking for opinions / questions which you fine folk would ask in my situation. Some context...

I've worked for my current company for 4.5 years and am lucky that I quite like the job that I do. Us and our biggest rival will be merged

We have a consultation meeting tomorrow to ask any questions we may have and by Thursday we are expected to let the company know if we wish to stay or take redundancy.

We are currently in TUPE and have been told that we are guaranteed jobs until the two companies physically merge, the time of which is uncertain due to some remaining shareholders being awkward. It is likely to be settled in the next couple of weeks.

Once this has been settled, they will create the new team structure and decide how many people they wish to have and in which roles. We have been told that it's unlikely there will be enough room for us all once this happens and it's uncertain if our current roles would exist in the new structure.

It gets slightly awkward because my current team is in a smaller, remote office and once the merge occurs we'll be based in central London which adds quite an expensive travel cost - one which would take a big chunk of the money I currently take home at the end of the month.

Essentially, I'm in this position;

1. Take my notice period of four weeks (which I don't have to work) + two weeks goodwill gesture pay and pray that I quickly find a new job. This isn't redundancy.

2. Stay with the company and pray that there'll be a role for me once the merge takes place. We have been told that if we stay and are then made redundant we wouldn't get the two week goodwill gesture and would have to work our months notice.

I'm wondering what other people in the above situation would ask in their consultation meeting - I have a number of questions but I'm looking for opinions of others and what they would ask.


Thanks :)
 
A lot would depend on the employment prospects in the role that you are in.

However with regards to the first offer, surely it is redundancy as the reason they are making this offer is because there aren't as many jobs as people?

With regards to Option 2, what are the redundancy terms? They could be much more than 6 weeks pay.
 
FARGO said:
TUPE
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I guess it depends on how strongly you think you are perceived by your immediate management. Ultimately, if you like the job it might be worth riding it out.
 
The TUPE process is suppose to be there for the employee unfortunately it rarely turns in the employee's favour.

If you are going to stay and it's going to cost you to get into London how can you possibly be out of pocket for this? seems massively unfair , but this is the nature of businesses and the TUPE process, does't really look after you at all

If I was in that situation I would be taking redundancy and looking elsewhere
 
Thanks for the comments and links so far.

We've not been offered redundancy yet as the merge hasn't legally occurred at this time. What 'it seems' we are being offered is a quick / early way out - letting us not have to work our notice period and giving us two weeks pay extra. I guess this would make things easier for the company in the long run.

I like the job I currently do but there's no way of knowing if it'll still exist / if I would have the role in the coming months.

Asking about future redundancy options is something I will ask in the consultation but I have a feeling they won't tell me much at this time. It was indicated that there wouldn't be any goodwill gesture payments as some folk have already been made redundant in other areas of the company and weren't given it.

Regarding a mobility clause as mentioned in the link above, the closest I can find in my contract is this;

'The Employee's place of work is at the Company's premises at **Address** but the Employee may from time to time be required to travel on the business of the Company both inside and outside the United Kingdom or to perform his responsibilities and duties at such other place within the United Kingdom as the Company may reasonably request from time to time.'

Meh, I'll see what the say tomorrow. I guess the ultimate decision comes down to if I can actually afford to travel to work if I was offered a role after the merge process.
 
The move to a different office has to be "reasonable" (as in a reasonable distance, reasonably comparable facilities etc). If it isn't, and you can't move, then it should trigger a compulsory redundancy scenario.

First thing though, I'd be speaking to your union rep about it all.

The TUPE process is suppose to be there for the employee
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Incorrect - UK employment law is there to "promote the efficient conduct of business". If a point of employment law protects an employee, that's just a side effect.
 
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Thanks for the comment - unfortunately, we don't have a union. The distance isn't unreasonable, I'm sure that a lot of people have greater commutes; the problem I face is that it would cost me £2400 per year to do it. Assuming there was a role for me after the merge.
 
Are you anything to do with the traffic light industry out of
Interest?

Only ask as the tfl contracts changed last week and a lot of people i know going thru the same thing
 
One thing to note would be the 4+2 weeks offer would be taxable, if you were made redundant you be entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks tax free.
 
FARGO said:
Thanks for the comment - unfortunately, we don't have a union. The distance isn't unreasonable, I'm sure that a lot of people have greater commutes; the problem I face is that it would cost me £2400 per year to do it. Assuming there was a role for me after the merge.
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That sounds like an awful lot of money. But I suppose it depends on what % of your wage it is, or what %-age increase it is to your current costs. Furthermore, you say the distance isn't unreasonable and compare it to other people - other people are irrelevant. It's what's reasonable for you.

It's not just the ££££, but the time to commute that needs to be added to the equation - if it's unreasonable for you, then argue so. What is your current commute time and what would the new one be? It's not a simple matter of what they employer thinks is reasonable. However, I seem to recall that an hours commute is used as a benchmark. This is from the Solicitors that my Union use:

...and depends on factors personal to the employee to be considered from the employee's point of view.
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daver said:
One thing to note would be the 4+2 weeks offer would be taxable, if you were made redundant you be entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks tax free.
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Pay in lieu of notice is taxable but you have a £30k allowance on the redundancy settlement, in most cases even if an element of the award is non-statutory.
 
daver said:
One thing to note would be the 4+2 weeks offer would be taxable, if you were made redundant you be entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks tax free.
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Redundancy is £30k tax free.

On my £80k redundancy I only paid around £15k tax/ni.
 
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BadMojo said:
That sounds like an awful lot of money. But I suppose it depends on what % of your wage it is, or what %-age increase it is to your current costs. Furthermore, you say the distance isn't unreasonable and compare it to other people - other people are irrelevant. It's what's reasonable for you.

It's not just the ££££, but the time to commute that needs to be added to the equation - if it's unreasonable for you, then argue so. What is your current commute time and what would the new one be? It's not a simple matter of what they employer thinks is reasonable. However, I seem to recall that an hours commute is used as a benchmark. This is from the Solicitors that my Union use:
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To put it in perspective I earn under £22,000.

Nearly every person in my team is local (a la Royston Vasey :D ) to our current location and has a very short commute, probably ~15 minutes on foot or bus on average. The new journey time would be over an hour each way on the train.

Hopefully I've not been coming across as negative about the whole thing - colleagues in the US came in to work as usual a few days ago and were told not to come back the next day. We've had it very good in comparison to them.

I'm just not sure what sort of things I should be aware of / asking in the first meeting. We've already been told that they've not yet decided on a team structure once the companies legally merge. I suppose I'm wanting to know if it's likely there'll be a position for me, if I'd have to reapply, would I have a new contract, would my salary be affected, what sort of progression would there be, etc. Until they announce a new team structure, they can't answer those questions.

It's just the uncertainty making things difficult for me, I guess. If they were to say that it's very unlikely I'd have a role waiting for me, I'd take the money and use the months' notice to burn the midnight oil until I found a new job. I really don't want to do this though as I was in a similar situation to this before landing this role, over four years ago.

Thanks for the comments :)
 
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