Turntable advice please?

Soldato
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I've just set up a suitcase type turntable that I got for Christmas, it sounds terrible through its built in speakers, so I bought myself a set of Edifier R1855DB active speakers, and it sounds far, far better.

I've already got the upgrade bug, and I'm tempted to get a better but still reasonably budget turntable to replace the briefcase one.

Is it worth doing, or would the speakers hold back a half decent turntable? I haven't got the space for separates, and just want a nice simple setup, but also happy just to stick with what I've got for now if an upgrade isn't going to be worthwhile.
 
Man of Honour
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To hear some people talk you'd think that using one of these turntables is akin to dragging a nail across the record. Whilst it's true that these turntables and their ilk are not the greatest, there's no conclusive evidence that they damage records the instant they're played resulting in ruined vinyl.

There's panic when people with limited knowledge see the tracking force figures at 4-5gm compared to the typical 2-2.5gm of a moving magnet cartridge. "Oh no, it's ploughing your records. Stop. Stop!" is the cry. They track heavier because that's how the ceramic cartridges are designed to work. There's a term for the amount of flex in the cantilever which is the tiny little tube with the stylus tip that makes contact with the record surface. It's referred to as compliance. The lower the compliance then the stiffer the cantilever suspension. Ceramic cartridges of the type used in these decks need a stiff (low compliance) suspension in order to drive the mechanism that turns the wiggles in the record surface in to electrical signals. Without it there's be less signal and a lot less bass.

Other cries of anguish are heard when the tonearms on these decks are referred to a high-mass. "Oh, high mass. (mutter, mutter) That sounds like a bad idea." say the people who haven't much idea what this really means. If you have a cartridge with low compliance then you need an arm capable of holding it in place to allow the suspension to work correctly. A low or medium mass arm would move easier than the cantilever and so the cartridge wouldn't track correctly. The mild effect would be a loss of bass, and at the other end of the spectrum the tonearm would allow the stylus to mis-track, jumping clean out of the groove every time there was some bass in the signal.

These budget turntables certainly have their problems, and I wouldn't recommend one as anyone's first step back in to vinyl. However, if that's what you've got then you shouldn't let the fear mongers stop you using it. You will though need to change the stylus quite frequently. They last something like 40-50 hours.


This is a microscope view of a single groove of a record. It's a V-shaped trough and the ribbing on the sides is the audio signal. You can see that the signal is recorded in the entire groove from top to bottom.

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The stylus tip from the cartridge has a certain shape. Basic cartridges use a conical stylus profile. It's also known as spherical. It's the same sort of shape as the end of a ball point pen tip.

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A conical stylus makes contact with a small portion of the record groove. Over time this results in a wear pattern in the groove.

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One of the advantages of buying a better quality turntable is the opportunity to use better quality cartridges. These include those with different profile styli. The next step up the ladder after conical is elliptical, and this type makes contact with a larger part of the record groove.


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An elliptical profile "reads" the record groove in areas above and below the conical tip's wear.


This is an eBay sale for a Pro-Ject Essential II turntable. It includes an Ortofon OM5e cartridge. This cartridge uses an elliptical profile stylus.

q626ET.jpg



Pro-ject is a good turntable manufacturer. Their range of products is well regraded. This model of turntable got a five-star review from What Hi-Fi when it was launched in 2013. The Essential II wouldn't be a direct replacement for your Goodmans turntable. It doesn't have Bluetooth (if that's how you're connecting to the speakers) and you would need something called a phono pre-amp to make it compatible with the wired connection socket on the Edifier speakers. But in all other respects it's a massive step up.

A phono pre-amp is a small box of electronics that takes the weak signal from the cartridge and boosts it to a level that will work with Line In / Aux sockets. Have a look at the Pro-ject Phono Box MM. New price is around £70, but you'll also find these as used sale items too. There are also versions of the Pro-Ject turntable range that have a phono pre-amp built in.


Cartridge lifespan.

The stylus in any cartridge wears out over time. Where the stlus stone is a diamond then you can expect to play that for 750-1000 hours before looking for a replacement. The red tip on your Goodmans is the stylus. This can be replaced. It uses either a ruby or a sapphire. These are generally industrially produced rather than gem stone quality. The material isn't as hard as diamond. The playing life is around 40-50 hours. Replacements are cheap; typically around £8 for two.
 
Soldato
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Thank you so much for the in depth and informative reply, some interesting reading.

The speakers are currently connected to the phono output on the back of the turntable, and I'd like to connect any future turntable the same way.

I'd prefer to keep everything as simple as possible, so it looks like I'd be after a turntable with a built in phono pre-amp.

I'll take everything you've said on board, and have a look over the weekend, much appreciated. :)

Edit: It looks like the Pro-Ject Primary E might be perfect, reasonably priced, and it's got a built in phono pre-amp.

I've also seen a second hand Audio-Technica AT-LP3 on another forum, ew Audio Technica AT 3600 L cartridge fitted, just over a year old, and that's £80, any opinions please?
 
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Man of Honour
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If you want Auto Start/Stop then the AT-LP3 is a decent choice. The cartridge is okay, a little soft on the top end but that helps hide surface noise. The standard headshell looks like it will take better cartridges, but I'm not sure without doing a lot of digging whether the arm is set up for the more springy cartridges that would have a better profile. As long as the condition of the deck is good then the £80 price is very fair though.

Semi-auto and fully-auto turntables often involve compromises in exchange for the convenience. There's no doubt that this LP3 would be a huge step up from the Goodmans, but it's not the equivalent of a fully manual Pro-Ject.
 
Soldato
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The pitfalls of looking into something that I don't fully understand, the £200 Primary E doesn't have a pre-amp, but the £270 Primary E Phono does, typical, lol!

I might get some more details on the LP3 and make an offer, I don't want to spend a huge amount at the minute, it will be far better than what I'm currently using, and I can always look at getting something better again at a later date.
 
Man of Honour
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If the LP3 falls through then that Pro-Ject with the ortophon cartridge includes a spare belt and maybe a spare stylus too. £100 + £12 del.

Theres a NAD PP3 or PP4 preamp on eBay too, not the best physical condition, but cheap at £20. If you're handy with a rattle can then it could look very tidy and be equal to the £100 Pro-Ject equivalent.
 
Soldato
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There’s a Project pre amp on Amazon for £55.

I have a Project Debut turntable which has been great. Might be worth seeking one out second hand?


Or one that comes with a phono box (and a small chip in the plinth):

 
Soldato
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There’s a Project pre amp on Amazon for £55.

I have a Project Debut turntable which has been great. Might be worth seeking one out second hand?


Or one that comes with a phono box (and a small chip in the plinth):


I really want a one box solution, so I'd much prefer something with a built in pre-amp, thanks for the links though.
 
Soldato
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Did you get anywhere with that AT-LP3 @ £80? Seems to tick all your boxes:
- budget
- one box
- big upgrade from Goodmans

You snooze, you lose, whilst I was contemplating, someone else bought it!

I think I'm eventually going to go for the Pro-Ject Primary E Phono, ticks all the boxes too.
 
Soldato
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By no means is turntables my bag, but I set up a Pro-Ject turntable (I forget exactly what one) hooked up to a Sonos Play:5 Gen 2. He absolutely loves it.

Added advantage of being able to "stream" your music from your turntable around the house to other Sonos speakers if you feel like expanding the setup.
 
Soldato
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By no means is turntables my bag, but I set up a Pro-Ject turntable (I forget exactly what one) hooked up to a Sonos Play:5 Gen 2. He absolutely loves it.

Added advantage of being able to "stream" your music from your turntable around the house to other Sonos speakers if you feel like expanding the setup.

I've only got a Sonos One beside my turntable, no inputs on that one, great idea though.
 
Soldato
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Yeah, I mean, by the sounds of it you're buying "something" so why not add to an ecosystem you already use? Return the pair you bought and upgrade ;)
 
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