Ubisoft still don't get it do they?

Why cry about DRM's? I just don't get it...

How many times machines do you need a game on? If it was a disk you'd only be able to use it on one at a time anyway, so....

You don't get it? You're not very good at assuming possible situations.

Corrupt files/HDD error.
Operating system reinstall.
PC upgrade that requires the above.
Completely new PC.
Want to put it on another machine in a different location, or a laptop to travel.

I don't know why people are for this kind of DRM, doubly confused why it's that hard to conjure up ideas on why people may need multiple installs within a time frame.
 
You don't get it? You're not very good at assuming possible situations.

Corrupt files/HDD error.
Operating system reinstall.
PC upgrade that requires the above.
Completely new PC.
Want to put it on another machine in a different location, or a laptop to travel

And you're doing this three times every month?
 
Why cry about DRM's? I just don't get it...

How many times machines do you need a game on? If it was a disk you'd only be able to use it on one at a time anyway, so....

Because its a 'what if' situation. Sure its one in a million, but what if you happen to suffer from a couple of duff hard drives in a month? You're then waiting for 30 days while you can't play the game you bought. Pirates, however, don't have to deal with this. They just install the game, crack, and they can install as many times as they like in the future.

Its not DRM itself the problem is with, its when the DRM is intrusive, and means that legit users suffer more tham pirates. That's when there's a problem, as people are then going to pirate the game, just so they don't have to put up with the DRM.

Steam is DRM, but it is DRM that is done well. It limits sharing, reselling, and requires one-time online activation. But then you can go into offline mode and it will just work. It prevents piracy just as well as any other form of DRM (if not more) and doesn't drive people to piracy to get around it. You can download as many times as you like, reinstall as often as you want, no limits.
 
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This would be hilarious if it wasn't true - you even have to link your OnLive account to a Ubisoft web account before you can play Prince of Persia through OnLive. If you don't log in to Ubisoft when prompted, it's no play time for you. WTF!
 
You seem to think there's no possible reason this could happen.
You'd be wrong, there's every possibility, which are usually out of our hands.

Actually I acknowledged that there are people that will manage break their PC (through not knowing what they're doing or downloading nasties from dodgy sites) a few times a month. I'm not sure why I should care for their problems though?

I don't find it a 'punishment' as long is it doesn't affect me (ala "online only"). I dislike some of the methods that developers use with DRM, but I don't think they should bend over and let people take their game for free without trying. Steam's pretty **** poor as far as preventing piracy goes, just look at the number of Steamworks games that get pirated.

DRM's bad. Piracy is bad.
Devs are going to try implementing DRM until they can stop Piracy.
Piracy isn't going to stop.
We're stuck with DRM, time to get over it.

So....apart from the bitching about the DRM, has anyone bought the game?

I was tempted, but I'm still fully booked with games from the chrimbo sale. Looks good though. :p

Not ever buy a game with DRM, end of story

I bet you've bought tons of games with one form of DRM or another and you don't even realise it.
 
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And you're doing this three times every month?

I think you're missing a crucial point - the timer starts when you use your third activation, not your first. You can happily have two installs running on a PC & laptop, then change something on your PC and reinstall only for a single issue to occur - your 30-day timer has already started and while you've still got your laptop, it's likely that you only game on it as an imperfect solution to not be carting around your desktop.

It's poorly thought-out, unnecessary and useless. Even if the games were pirated less, they wouldn't sell any better - just less people would get it for free. People are too ready to claim piracy figures as lost sales, but it's a flawed premise - if anything, this burden of DRM will cause a drop in sales from people avoiding otherwise appealing games. Obviously it's a poor example on its own and can't be extrapolated to the half-arsed console port crap that Ubisoft vomits onto the PC market from time to time, but you've only got to look at the figures for Oblivion to see that even though it was heavily pirated, it still sold very well on the PC market - and that's not counting second-hand sales which, while not directly benefitting the developers, helps to maintain a fast-dwindling PC retail market.

DRM does nothing to deter pirates, it just sets challenges for them - which, eventually, they always win. In the meantime it punishes legitimate purchasers and deters potential buyers.
 
I think you're missing a crucial point - the timer starts when you use your third activation, not your first. You can happily have two installs running on a PC & laptop, then change something on your PC and reinstall only for a single issue to occur - your 30-day timer has already started and while you've still got your laptop, it's likely that you only game on it as an imperfect solution to not be carting around your desktop.

I don't see that I'm missing the point, I understand how it works. Some people here a whining about DRM for the sake of having a whine. People hear DRM and have to jump on the bandwagon.

As I said in the point before yours. I'm happy to accept that there are people that will burn through activations. I bet the vast majority of people would never remotely come into one of these edge cases though and be unaffected.

I'm by no means pro-DRM, but I'll take the lesser of two evils any day. Between this and "online only" DRM, this is the option that's going to affect me least (or not at all).

It's poorly thought-out, unnecessary and useless. Even if the games were pirated less, they wouldn't sell any better - just less people would get it for free. People are too ready to claim piracy figures as lost sales, but it's a flawed premise - if anything, this burden of DRM will cause a drop in sales from people avoiding otherwise appealing games. Obviously it's a poor example on its own and can't be extrapolated to the half-arsed console port crap that Ubisoft vomits onto the PC market from time to time, but you've only got to look at the figures for Oblivion to see that even though it was heavily pirated, it still sold very well on the PC market - and that's not counting second-hand sales which, while not directly benefitting the developers, helps to maintain a fast-dwindling PC retail market.

I've never bought into the whole "Piracy = lost sales" either. But I'd still rather eradicate piracy. If people don't want to pay they shouldn't have the opportunity to play.

The quality of games, and lack of second hand sales does nothing to justify piracy.

DRM does nothing to deter pirates, it just sets challenges for them - which, eventually, they always win. In the meantime it punishes legitimate purchasers and deters potential buyers.

So your saying that developers should entirely lay down arms against piracy?

I'm more than happy for developers to try whatever they want against piracy provided it doesn't stop me playing. Hopefully, one day they'll find something that works seamlessly without any interruption to any legitimate players.

I'm aware that siding with developers against piracy is the unpopular opinion based on other OcUK threads though... ;)
 
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Its ridiculous. P***ing off your loyal customers while the pirates continue to play for free with no Drm from day one. Makes me :mad: If you've paid for your game you have the right to instal it as many times as you wish. I agree something needs to be done to combat piracy but punishing your customers for being honest and loyal and actually doing things the right way is not the way to go about it.
 
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I don't see that I'm missing the point, I understand how it works. Some people here a whining about DRM for the sake of having a whine. People hear DRM and have to jump on the bandwagon.

I'm "jumping on the bandwagon" because a flight sim that is coming out soon, which I have been looking forward to more than any PC game in years, is looking likely to be published by Ubi and have DRM on it. I oppose DRM both in principle (and why shouldn't I?) and because of the inevitable practical problems it causes for paying customers, whether many or few, regardless of whether I personally happen to be unlucky enough to be affected. I boycott games that have DRM (and as a result I may never play this sim). I don't pirate games, by the way. Though of the people I know who have an interest in PC gaming...

- There are a few people who pirate every damn thing without considering paying for anything, and DRM won't affect them - they bypass it. I don't agree with their behaviour but they aren't going to be stopped.

- There are a few who buy games but occasionally torrent them first to try them out, and have bought games (and persuaded friends to buy games) they wouldn't have bought without having tried out the pirated version first.

- There are a few who don't pirate games. I'm one of them. I occasionally find useful the feedback that those who do pirate games can give on the quality of a game, though. If a game developer considers that minor aspect of things bad then they should make better games.

Please, someone tell me how any of these groups of people are affected by DRM in a way that can be considered positive.

I'm by no means pro-DRM, but I'll take the lesser of two evils any day. Between this and "online only" DRM, this is the option that's going to affect me least (or not at all).

I'll take no evils at all, thanks very much.

I've never bought into the whole "Piracy = lost sales" either.

But I'd still rather eradicate piracy. If people don't want to pay they shouldn't have the opportunity to play.

Can't be done. Sorry.

The quality of games, and lack of second hand sales does nothing to justify piracy.

Agreed. Piracy still can't be stopped though. Given that...

So your saying that developers should entirely lay down arms against piracy?

I can't say whether he is or not, but I am! :)

I'm more than happy for developers to try whatever they want against piracy provided it doesn't stop me playing.

Hopefully, one day they'll find something that works seamlessly without any interruption to any legitimate players.
They won't. DRM doesn't work and never will. The only DRM that approaches being effective is the kind that is so restrictive that it screws with paying customers a LOT. Like the always-on DRM you would prefer not to have. And by "approaches being effective" I mean "slightly delays the arrival of the cracked version on the torrent sites", at the cost of losing a hell of a lot of goodwill in the community and hence a hell of a lot of legitimate sales.

When I think of DRM I am reminded of a quote from The Complete Yes Prime Minister:

...the Politicians' Syllogism:

Step One: We must do something.
Step Two: This is something.
Step Three: Therefore we must do this.

Logically, this is akin to other equally famous syllogisms, such as:

Step One: All dogs have four legs.
Step Two: My cat has four legs.
Step Three: Therefore my dog is a cat.

The Politicians' Syllogism has been responsible for many of the disasters that befell the United Kingdom in the twentieth century, including the Munich Agreement and the Suez Adventure...

Game Publisher: Piracy is awful! Look at the huge number of downloads going on at this torrent site! Surely we are losing loads of money because of it! Think of the children! We must do something!

And so they slap DRM on their games. It doesn't work, but at least they are "doing something". Though game publishers seem to be so far out of touch with reality and with what customers want that I doubt they even realise it doesn't work.
 
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I've not heard murmurings from the music industry lately. Maybe Ubi should follow Apple's example and discard the DRM altogether. That doesn't seem to have had a detrimental effect on iTunes.
 
And you're doing this three times every month?

I did.
had Riddick installed, but needed to reinstall windows.
Reinstalled Riddick, realised after a couple of days that the problem hadn't gone away, and reinstalled windows again. Instaleld Riddick.
After a couple of days, I thought, "when i installed windows, i should have organised things this way, and I've just reinstalled, so it's not much of a hassle to go through it again now."
Did it again, then reinstalled Riddick (among other things, and Riddick wouldn't work.
I didn't know about the 3 install limit then, but I'd probably have done it anyway, since I'd gett he activation back in 30 days, right? No.
Contacted support, was told how it worked, was irritated, but waited 30 days. Tried to play again - nope. Tried again each day for several more days - nope.
Contacted steam, tages, and atari support: the first 2 directed me to atari, atari never responded.
Tried again another month or so later, still wouldn't work.
Uninstalled.

Now, it'sm probably the case that everything will work perfectly for most other people, but DRM introduces another point of possible failure. It won't work for some people who aren't pirates.
 
I think this thread proves why DRM in all its insidious forms is here to stay for the forseeable future. There are so many people who just don't understand the underlying issue, and these are the people that companies like Ubisoft will continue to exploit and use to keep their coffers full. It's inevitable that this punishes the ones that are rightly outraged.

+1

It's disappointing that people don't see the problem, even if it doesn't directly effect them.

DRM's bad. Piracy is bad.
Devs are going to try implementing DRM until they can stop Piracy.
Piracy isn't going to stop.
We're stuck with DRM, time to get over it.

Wrong. If people don't buy the games, they will soon drop DRM. Vote with your wallet as money talks.

I'm "jumping on the bandwagon" because a flight sim that is coming out soon, which I have been looking forward to more than any PC game in years, is looking likely to be published by Ubi and have DRM on it. I oppose DRM both in principle (and why shouldn't I?) and because of the inevitable practical problems it causes for paying customers, whether many or few, regardless of whether I personally happen to be unlucky enough to be affected. I boycott games that have DRM (and as a result I may never play this sim). I don't pirate games, by the way. Though of the people I know who have an interest in PC gaming...

- There are a few people who pirate every damn thing without considering paying for anything, and DRM won't affect them - they bypass it. I don't agree with their behaviour but they aren't going to be stopped.

- There are a few who buy games but occasionally torrent them first to try them out, and have bought games (and persuaded friends to buy games) they wouldn't have bought without having tried out the pirated version first.

- There are a few who don't pirate games. I'm one of them. I occasionally find useful the feedback that those who do pirate games can give on the quality of a game, though. If a game developer considers that minor aspect of things bad then they should make better games.

Please, someone tell me how any of these groups of people are affected by DRM in a way that can be considered positive.

Agreed. Piracy still can't be stopped though.


They won't. DRM doesn't work and never will. The only DRM that approaches being effective is the kind that is so restrictive that it screws with paying customers a LOT. Like the always-on DRM you would prefer not to have. And by "approaches being effective" I mean "slightly delays the arrival of the cracked version on the torrent sites", at the cost of losing a hell of a lot of goodwill in the community and hence a hell of a lot of legitimate sales..

Huge +1
 
Wrong. If people don't buy the games, they will soon drop DRM. Vote with your wallet as money talks.

If there's one thing MW2 taught me, it's that people are hypocrites. They'll never deprive themselves of things they want for the sake of petty morals - I can't find it now, but there's a fantastic screenshot of the MW2 boycott group on steam a few days after release, and 2/3 of the members were online at the time playing MW2. It's the same problem we have with poor attention to PC versions of games - the upcoming DA2 is a prime example of this, and while there are sure to be others, I've not got the inclination to farm information and compile it to make my opinion a watertight case. You'll just have to reach your own conclusions from your experiences. One thing is for sure - those who insist there's no problem don't get on my nerves half as much as those who rage about it and bend over anyway, but it's certainly frustrating to see people give the big OK to fatuous corporate decisions that pile up disadvantages on gamers for the slightest perceived gain, realised or not.
 
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