UEFA Champions League/Europa League 20/21/22 November *** Spoilers ***

Disappointing finish to the game. Feel like we offered more of a threat with Suso in the hole and Shelvey playing as the false 9. Seems like we dropped deeper when Suarez came on.

Edit: Reina's a real concern for me now. Didn't have much of a chance with either goal but looked like his gloves were covered in butter all night. Had a dip in for a few years ago for a few games but this has been going on a long time now.
 
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Stupid play in the last 5 or so minutes.

Two great goals (although second was deflected of Skrtel I'm pretty sure, and the first Hendo was doing I don't know what.)

Grats Young Boys, deserved a draw and outsung are non existent fans badly.
 
Half arsed performance from us and got what we deserved in the end. Both at 1-0 and 2-1 we played like the game was already over.

We're going to need at least a draw in Italy now when we should have been putting our feet up.

edit: Just had a quick look at the table and iinm we qualify if:
-we win
-we draw and Young Boys draw or lose
-we draw and Young Boys win by 3 goals

If we lose and Young Boys lose, **** knows what happens because us, Young Boys and Udinese will be on 7 points - Young Boys have a better head to head with Udinese, Udinese have a better head to head with us and we have a better head to head with Young Boys :confused:

edit2: I've read that if both Liverpool and Young Boys lose then it goes to a mini league between all 3 sides, in which case Young Boys would qualify.
 
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BaZ87 said:
Half arsed performance from us and got what we deserved in the end. Both at 1-0 and 2-1 we played like the game was already over.

We're going to need at least a draw in Italy now when we should have been putting our feet up.

edit: Just had a quick look at the table and iinm we qualify if:
-we win
-we draw and Young Boys draw or lose
-we draw and Young Boys win by 3 goals

If we lose and Young Boys lose, **** knows what happens because us, Young Boys and Udinese will be on 7 points - Young Boys have a better head to head with Udinese, Udinese have a better head to head with us and we have a better head to head with Young Boys :confused:

edit2: I've read that if both Liverpool and Young Boys lose then it goes to a mini league between all 3 sides, in which case Young Boys would qualify.
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It will go to goal difference, so if young boys lose, and we are going to lose, it will have to be by a 2 goal margin, anything greater we go out. So, if Young Boys lose, and we lose 3-1, we still qualify, due to better GD.
 
Nope, see my 2nd edit. If we lose and Young Boys lose, leaving both of us and Udinese on 7 points, then it goes to the points won in the matches between the 3 sides - Young Boys will qualify

We need to get at least a point in the last game. The only way a draw won't be good enough for us is if Young Boys beat Anzhi by either 1 or 2 goals.

The positive for us is that Udinese are out no matter what happens so may leave players out.
 
Well, it could help us that Udinese are out, but then again, Anji are through. Here are all the permutations -

We better Young Boys result and we go through on points
We win and Young Boys win, we are both on 10 points and we go through as we have a better head to head
We draw and Young Boys draw, we are both on 8 points and we go through as we have a better head to head
We lose and Young Boys lose, us, YB and Udinese are on 7 points - all results against Anzi are disregarded and a mini league is created with these 3 teams, Young Boys win the mini league and go through on that basis

- Taken from RAWK.
 
As the 2nd permutation shows - Anzhi aren't actually through yet. If both us and Young Boys win, both of us and Anzhi will be on 10 points and like the confusion above, it will go to a mini league between the 3 sides with Anzhi losing out.

edit: Actually forget that - Young Boys would go out based on the mini league, not Anzhi.

This is giving me a head ache.

edit2: So the rawk permutations are right but the reasoning for 1 of them isn't.
 
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It's confusing as hell lol, but the easiest way to say it is. Match Young Boys, we are through. We should have enough to win at Udinese though, just a pain when we should have been able to rest a few players for the premier league instead!
 
Purdy said:
Just spent the past two minutes in my head trying to work out what happens if we win and so do udinese, sigh.
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Of all the permutations to get confused by you get confused by that one? :p

To put it very simply - we need to draw unless Young Boys win, in which case we would need to win.

edit: I've just realised what you said :o

This is harder than A-level maths.
 
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What do Spurs fans think of AVB then, I see the same mistakes, a worsening defence, a stupid high line that is cut open by everyone which was the fundamental reason why Chelsea were losing games last year, and the first thing RDM fixed. Arsenal ripped apart Chelsea when both teams were absymal defensively but AVB had Chelsea's top notch for years defence, look worse than our terrible for years defence. Then he made the exact same mistake for Arsenal vs Spurs last week.

He also seems blissfully unaware that, Chelsea spend 100mil more on wages than Spurs and were in the champs league with much higher financial rewards, Porto were in a one horse league so could afford to go all out in the Europa cup.... Spurs, with a weaker squad a MUCH tougher league and no Falcao to win the cup for him, both can't win the Europa league(they would be a very very long shot) and can't afford to play first team players in every game.

Not least is the fact that, putting out strong sides, they've not exactly done well either .

3 tough games, 2 should have been easy games, and you lost 4 out of 5 rather than 3 and 2 wins at least or should really have been aiming to take points off Arsenal and maybe a not great City as well. That happens, Liverpool/West Ham, the later have been surprisingly decent, and Liverpool can put ina good performance now and then. if you lose them, it starts to become a bad run then two tough games in Everton and Fulham, both away.

Next couple games could almost make or break Spurs season, 2 losses, and 6 losses in 7 games, then two tough away games is not a good place to be.
 
Spurs have a much more mobile/faster back line than Chelsea, so conceivably the high line could work. I can't make up my mind until we have our first team back.

The Europa vs PL point is good though; we seem to be knackered come the weekend and in any normal season Europa should be dumped on the kids. However, given he is trying to bed a first team in, build confidence and implement a new system I can see why he wants to play as often as possible so as to improve confidence and get the players understanding each other and his new system.

Finally, the state of the team he inheritted was shocking. Confidence was shot to pieces and there hasn't been a winning mentality since February. Compound that will players lost to injury and transfers mixed with poor summer signings and you have a particularly distasteful end combination.

What could have been done better? Levy should have made sure Moutinho arrived. AVB is not a genius manager and seems to be less successful at coaching 4231 to the players than was hoped. Dawson should not have been ostracised.

I will be judging AVB on the run through Christmas to March. Touchwood he has the first team squad healed and less injured (Dembele and A&E are vital in that area as there is no cover for them in the squad). I also hope that Levy can sign a high quality creative midfielder so Demebele can play higher or Viva versa. Once those are in place you can compare to Harry who never had many injuries to cope with and had a far stronger squad to play with.

Edit; it is also unfair to say we should have picked up more points over the recent period. Our first team was basically at 50%. We didn't have our only creative midfielder available; Parker was out; our only LB was out; our best CB was out; we only had one striker to choose from. For me A&E has been one of the keenest losses and we were shredded down our left numerous times when he was out. Our central midfield of Thud and Livermore wouldn't look out of place in the Championship.
 
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Rubbish result but I actually enjoyed the game :) Thought Shelvey and Suso both had very good games (not going to give Joe Cole any kudos though, for 120k a week he should be head and shoulders above a team of relatively inexperianced youngsters).

Not going to call Henderson out for the 1st, he's a midfielder not a right back so of course his positioning is going to be off.

Non-surprise of the night, Downing does nothing.
 
People keep overlooking the Spurs injuries.

Kaboul was an absolute rock last year
BAE is the only LB on the books
Parker was fantastic last year
Dembele our Modric replacment has been out
Ade wasnt playing/suspended now

I honestly think with a fully fit squad and not having to move players around AVB will be great. Hopefully the media will get off his back and concentrate on Rafa.
 
DiCe! said:
People keep overlooking the Spurs injuries.

Kaboul was an absolute rock last year
BAE is the only LB on the books
Parker was fantastic last year
Dembele our Modric replacment has been out
Ade wasnt playing/suspended now

I honestly think with a fully fit squad and not having to move players around AVB will be great. Hopefully the media will get off his back and concentrate on Rafa.
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But that is something a manager has to deal with, rather than realise the Europa league isn't a realistic goal, realised he has injuries and needs to prevent the rest of the players getting tired, he's sending out a very strong squad in Europe, which is risking more injuries, and more tiredness.

INjuries happen every year to ever club, the manager doing the smart thing in response to injuries it whats important.

Also a lot of those players essentially have been out since the start of the season, and some didn't join till the end of the transfer window(did you get Dembele and Dempsey end of the window?). Ultimately, he could have bought in a full back as Walker is frankly all pace, no ability, BAE is, at his best, inconsistent, and your CB's are mistake prone to say the least. Dawson has been available(I'll admit I don't know how long for) and has come on in several games when maybe he should have been starting.

Injuries don't excuse poor tactics, a high line with the wrong players is simply a poor choice, a high line with increasingly tired players, is asking for trouble. Dropping Defoe for the biggest game for a not match fit, not in form, donkey... is just another in a long line of incredibly poor tactical errors.

Injuries don't help, for sure, but thats life, most of what isn't working for Spurs, isn't to do with injuries.

Apparently Adebayor has said Spurs are boned if they don't improve quickly, and papers are starting to realise that 4 or 5 losses in a row with two potentially very tricky games followed by two even more tricky games and well, you're on 4 losses in 5, 8 losses in 9 would be... firing material. I doubt that will happen but I can see 2 losses and 2 draws happening quite easily, which would still only be 5 points out of 27.

Its just as possible they win 2 or 3 of them and get back on track, I see Dembele as the most important player you're missing and, was there talk about him maybe making an appearance against Lazio... meaning he's almost fit again?

EDIT:- Redknapp still hasn't signed for Spurs has he, fire AVB quick and you can maybe get him back still :p
 
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