UEFA Champions League/Europa League 6/7/8 November *** Spoilers ***

Mancini should never have gone on the pitch, that was inexcusable but the guy is under a lot of pressure so he just cracked. Fergie I am sure has waited on refs before but I don't know for definite. Besides he just gets Rooney to do the screaming at the ref on the pitch for him anyway. (Oooh controversy!) :)
 
Also can't believe the comments on here about what Mancini did, like Fergie or Wenger wouldn't have done the same if they were in this situation. Fergie screams at the fourth official when he doesn't get a free kick in the prem never mind a penalty in the last minute in a game you have to win in a CL match.

I always thought that was part of the job of the fourth official. To liase with angry managers and staff.

Mancini went onto the pitch and started giving the ref abuse in amongst his players. Honestly, it was a silly thing to do but as said, it was pretty important and the ref had made a bad decision.

Can't see Mancini lasting more than this season if he last that long.
 
Think he had every right to have a go at the ref like that, he could have cost him his job.

Refs need to be held accountable for their decisions, it's disgraceful how untouchable they are while everyone around them are punished for disagreeing with them.

The fact Mancini won't face any action for his outburst this time speaks volumes of how bad that decision was, had it been another club who needs the money I'd wonder how far this would have gone today, I'd be livid if my team had been dumped out of such a lucrative competition due to referee incompetence.
 
The fact Mancini won't face any action for his outburst this time speaks volumes of how bad that decision was, had it been another club who needs the money I'd wonder how far this would have gone today, I'd be livid if my team had been dumped out of such a lucrative competition due to referee incompetence.

City could have won last night and still been dumped out of the competition because of the way they've played in the 3 games prior, if they do go out it wont be because of last night. Personally (and I'm aware this wont be an opinion everyone shares) if it were my side I wouldn't be that arsed about not getting a penalty decision for a shirt tug on a player with his back to goal providing very little goal threat, I'd be more ****** about the offside as that did rule out a goal but even then that wasn't really a cast iron incorrect decision, was more harsh than anything.

EDIT: For the record I dont have a problem with Mancini going onto the pitch last night, so many managers do it I dont even see it as a talking point anymore.
 
I think it is irrelevant if the player is on the very edge of the box with his back to 10 men on the goal line. If its blatant pulling of the shirt and arm it has to be a pen.
Just my opinion though and your right we haven't played well enough to deserve to go through. I said earlier better finishing in previous games and we get more points but it still comes down to not playing well enough.

Maybe the ref didn't want to give it because he was Danish and Ajax have four danish players? ;)
 
I guess my point of view is that no team shouldn't rely (for want of a better term) on getting a penalty and a chance to score a goal from a position which otherwise was fairly harmless. Another point also worth mentioning is didn't Aguero get away with a blatant studs on shin foul in the build up to the penalty incident?
 
Nope there has been a drastic change in our defence recently, silly mistakes and bad decisions with positioning weren't present at the start of the season. We didn't look panicked when teams attack whereas now we do, even when under no pressure (e.g. Vermaelan against United).

I can guarantee you he has scored many goals which you, I or any of the other players mentioned could not score. His finishing is generally quite tidy, far far greater than the player you would want to replace him with whose shooting has been appauling for ages now (Arshavin). I actually can't be bothered to break down every point as you are pretty much wrong on all of them.

Firstly, no, Walcott has basically never scored a "great" goal, he is the archetype "standard" finisher. Passes it to the far corner, with the inside of his right foot, or "The Henry", except he's FAR less good at it. The shoot for the far corner, these are standard things, Arshavin very rarely shoots from the positions Walcott does.

Likewise shooting isn't a priority, Arshavin is better ON THE WING which is where Walcott plays currently(not his fault, but he isn't remotely working hard in that position where many many many other players played out of position put in vastly more work). With Arshavin playing we create more chances, and score more goals AS A TEAM, lets not forget that Arshavin scored 10 and assisted 18 in his last full season, last time Walcott came close to those numbers.... never.

Walcott came on just after half time against Utd, did NOTHING, wasn't effective, didn't help the team, didn't score, didn't create chances, didn't defend, did nothing useful in 40 mins or so. Arshavin came on, he created a chance for Giroud, best chance for us to that point, then he in the box faught off Ferdinand won the header, got it directly to Santi, who scored. 10 mins 2 goal chances, one goal scored from them, Walcott 40 mins, no chances, no goals scored himself or from chances, nothing else. Hands up anyone who thinks Walcott would ever back in, hold off Ferdinand then win the header, and get the header directly to an Arsenal player, well I've never seen him do it, or even try.

Teams win off 90 min performances, not a goal and nothing else for the rest of the game. Walcott is rubbish, full stop, Walcott's finishing is not better than Arshavin's, Walcott is not a good finisher. He's a weak shot, he's lazy and he's a joke, if its not an easy chance he basically never scores, if its an easy chance, he scores as often as everyone else. Arshavin 4 goals against a top team, 4 quality goals. Can Arshavin score from 10 yards on the angle, yes, so can Walcott. Can Arshavin score a screamer from 30 yards after, yes, can Walcott, categorically no, can Arshavin get the ball on the half way line, beat two players and score a tap in or screamer, yes, can Walcott, no. Can Arshavin run the ball from the half way line to the goal and set up a goal for someone else, yes, can Walcott, almost never.

On the wing Arshavin is SO much more effective and FAR more productive than Walcott, in the 0.1% of a game either gets played in behind the defence, they are equally likely as each other(and most others) to finish a pretty simple one on one chance with the keeper.

Against Reading, Arshavin took the ball from the half way line, beat players, shot across the keeper in a busy box, and Walcott got a tap in from barely 6 yards... could Walcott do what Arshavin did, no, could anyone on the Arsenal team do what Walcott did, yes.

Compare someone playing on the wing at other top teams, does Mata only focus on scoring, is he ONLY effective when played in behind, do Chelsea look as good when Mata stays away from the ball, and only makes runs in behind and hopes someone else plays him in? Hazard, Oscar even(who I don't rate particularly much). Does any "winger" at a successful club do as little or is as limited as Walcott? Villa's interplay is brilliant, he was an out and out striker, full stop, he's been pushed out wide to suit the team(or Messi), does he ignore every other part of his game? He closes people down, tackles, defends, and his interplay is brilliant. He'll set up other players, score great goals, headers, 30 yard shots, freekicks, 6 yard tap ins. I can't name another player basically in a top league who puts in less work on the wing than Walcott, nor is as poor at crossing, passing, and is as scared to fight for the ball or go shoulder to shoulder. All of them, Villa, Valencia, Young, Arshavin, Gervinho, Moses, all of them can when played in behind one on one with the keeper pass it into the far corner, every last winger I can think of can do what Walcott does, Walcott can't do anything else, every other winger, natural of forced out wide, does more than Walcott.

Again its not his fault Wenger plays him there, but it IS his fault that he puts in less effort, and is less capable in every part of his game than everyone else.
 
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Arshavin is to Arsenal what Berbatov was to United. Plays well and has quality but looks lazy so ends up out of favour.
 
Team news for tonight:

Starting XI: De Gea, Valencia, Smalling, Evans, Evra, Nani, Anderson, Giggs, Welbeck, Rooney, Hernandez
Subs: Lindegaard, Rafael, Ferdinand, Carrick, Young, Cleverley, RVP

Dunno if that means Rooney in midfield with Giggs wide or Rooney in midfield with Welbeck wide and Giggs playing off Hernandez :/

Oh and we've got Niall ******* Quinn again :mad:
 
tbf it worked against Chelsea last week albeit it did have Fletcher in there as well so I'm inclined to think Rooney will also be in there with a front 3 of Nani, Hernandez & Welbeck
 
Very strange selection (even given AV at the weekend).

Not confident at all with Welbeck and Nani out wide (Nani being very hit and miss so far this season)
 
I'd rather Hernandez is out wide, Welbeck is utter crap out there.

Can't help but thinking I'd rather we'd chosen a stronger side and looked to secure first place easier. Surely Villa is the easier game out of the two??
 
Last night was **** for Wednesday. Embarrassed.

Looking forward to seeing some football tonight though, shattered after staying up all night for the election mind.
 
I'd rather Hernandez is out wide, Welbeck is utter crap out there.

Can't help but thinking I'd rather we'd chosen a stronger side and looked to secure first place easier. Surely Villa is the easier game out of the two??

Welbeck is pretty crap anywhere lol

AV game is definitely the easier of the two, after last season I really thought SAF would have thought qualify first (with a strong team) and then change it around once the points are on the board.
 
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