Ultra Short Throw Projectors and Drop down screens

Martynt74

Martynt74

Martynt74

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Please bare with me on this, it's mainly my musings and trying to work out the best solution!

I've always liked the idea of a projector but my wifes been against them being on show, particularly as i'd need to ceiling mount in the middle of the room due to the position of light fittings.

I'd never seen Ultra Short Throw projectors before where you could stick them on a tv stand and have them project onto the wall. They seem great as the cables remain hidden from view as they end up on the same side as the projected image. Probably something like this

https://petertyson.co.uk/optoma-hd35ust-1080p-ultra-short-throw-projector

However as our TV is mounted on the wall, i'd like to fit an electric drop down screen to come down just in front of the TV. From another thread i saw @lucid recommend the Sapphire range which seem decent for around the £400 mark.

My main issue is that our ceilings are around 300cm high. From what i can see, a 100" projector screen is around 130cm in height. Add on that some include a 50cm border at the top for positioning. It suggests that the bottom of the screen will be around 120cm off the floor. I understand that increased the top border would drastically increase the weight and motor requirement, but are there any firms which can accommodate this without it costing the earth?

Given the projector is sat on a tv stand around 50cm high, this leaves a shortfall of around 3ft for the projector to work with. Is this something that the projector would be able to deal with?

The other option would be a wall mounted screen, however i'd need to mount this on some brackets to clear the tv and i've a feeling my wife would veto this as it'd look crap!


Whilst it also isn't helpful i don't have a budget in mind, i'm more trying to understand if it's possible to get what i want at this stage and then look to find costs. I know it's going to be more expensive than a traditional setup.
 
The main screen brand I use is Screenline. Additional black masking to increase the drop was never a problem within certain limits. The motors and roller mech had the capacity to deal with the additional weight and extra volume of the material without issue. The extra drop required for a Victoria proerty ceiling 9~10ft height wasn't an issue. However, Screenlines are more expensive than Sapphires.

What I would suggest is getting in touch with Sapphire directly and asking the question. You'll know for sure then whether it's possible with the brand. IME the guys there are helpful.

Have a look too at the projector specs. You might find that there's an offset which gives you a little more in the way of gap between the projector and the base of the screen.
 
Cheers i'll give them a call. I'm not averse to spending extra, although i do question whether i'd be able to notice the picture quality difference of a better screen. I don't seem to be able to see any resellers for Screenlines.

I've just seen that Sapphire do something called a "Smart Move" screen, where it drops the motor/roller down which seems great but pricing seems to be around £1700 which when added onto the projector cost is probably more than i'd be happy with.

EDIT. Just seen this. Looks like i need something Tab Tensioned.

Please note
This screen is not compatible with Ultra/Short-throw Projectors. Even the very best triple laminated fibreglass fabric has undulations that will be exaggerated when the light is vertically pointed down onto the fabric. Tab Tensioned or Fixed Frame Screens are recommended for ultra/short throw applications.
Click to expand...
 
Am now wonder if there's a neat way of running cables for ceiling mounted and reckon that with enough effort i might be able to wear my wife down providing a ceiling mounted short through projector isn't too unsightly.

What are the best options for splitting signals?

At the moment i have

Xbox -----> Samsung Connect Box ----> Samsung TV
Fire TV -----> ................................----> Yamaha Stereo Amp and speakers


My initial thinking was that i'd just buy a new Fire TV stick and connect it to the projector and keep the two systems separate. However i've realised that won't work for getting audio to the speakers :(
 
I have a 3 cables running to the projector on the ceiling, power, HDMI and optical audio.

HDMI for the Xbox 4k input. FireTV is plugged directly into the projector. Audio out on the projector is connected to the amp.

If you have a home cinema amp you should be able to use the Audio Return Channel to get audio from the PJ for all inputs back to your amp, and could skip the optical cable. I've just got a stereo amp though so I need it.
 
Hadn't considered that, although i'm not sure my wife would want the casing on top of the tv unit. Also has the issue of alignment whenever the cleaner pulls the tv stand out for cleaning. Don't really want to come to watch a film and have to move furniture around to get it lined up.

Good news is that my wife has accepted a projector mounted at the back of the room. Has established that no trunking is allowed, so will need to think about chasing the wall to fit a channel for cables.Will work quite well though as i could use this to run a subwoofer cable and avoid having to use wireless transmitters as initially planned.

@lucid For wall mounted screens, how far does the screen tend to extend from the wall? I'll need it to drop in front of my tv (around 60mm from the wall to the front of the tv). Not sure whether i'll need to mount it onto a length of wood to bring it out from the wall.

Otherwise a recessed screen would be excellent, but will depend on the position of the beams.


Is there a 2in/2out HDMI splitter that deals in 4k? I can only find very cheap splitters in that configuration. Most seem to be 1 into 2.
 
Ah ok, that probably puts it even further out of the question then as it'd mean the tv unit being even further out from the wall than it is now.
 
@lucid

Also do you know of anyone in the Preston/Lancashire area from an installer point of view? Wouldnt mind a quick chat with someone local to discuss some options and figure they could probably chase cables a lot quicker/easier/less messily than me!
 
If it's just the cable routing, then have a chat with local plasterers (#1) or electricians (#2).
 
Was more around whether to aim for a short throw mounted in the middle of the ceiling or a regular projector at the back.

Trying to understand the pros/cons of either.
 
Personally, I'd go with a longer throw, particularly if all you need is 1080p.

Cons:
- longer cable runs which may mean a bit more work in the install. Depends which way joists run and whether the floor space is accessible from above (Can be easier to lift a board or two running in the right direction and span the ceiling from the room above if going through several joists. But where the joist run in-line with the projected image it'll be simpler to access from below.)
- reduced brightness - this can be a factor with less powerful 'cinephile' projectors. Using the centre portion of the lens is a bit like stopping down photographic lens. The impact isn't so noticeable with the higher-powered projectors in the sub £1500 price range.

Pros:
- bigger choice of projector models
- better adjustment range on projector lens for good screen fit
- more likely to find a projector with lens shift; this helps get the image position/projector height relationship closer to what may be required. Also helps to maintain image quality by avoiding digital keystone adjustment
- higher contrast due to better black level because of the stopping down effect of using the centre of the lens
- possibility of better edge focus and more uniform light distribution (again, lens-related)
- projector not in line-of-sight make it a more cinematic experience
- screen ripple less of an issue

The above isn't exhaustive
 
Great post.

I think that’s my current thinking. Particularly as my wife has ok’d the projector on the wall behind the sofa. I’m 95% sure the joists run in line of the projection so hoping that cabling is easy enough. Just needs a channel on either wall for taking cables to/from the projector. As mentioned. Doing it this way means I can send a sub cable with it which makes things better and avoid another wireless solution

My current thinking is the Optoma HD40. I’d prefer 4K if I can with having Netflix in 4K and an Xbox one x. I know this isn’t a “proper” 4K projector though.

Do you have any thoughts on how to handle cables? I’d still like 2x sources going to the tv. To avoid complications for my wife I want to try and avoid too many interactions needed. Think if the tv can just “work” then it’s better.

I did buy a Harmony Elite as thought the macros would be good but it was a bit painful to use and had awful lag compared to the tv remote.
 
Whether the projector is proper 4K or not, you'll still be sending it 4K UHD signals, and long HDMI cables for 4K UHD are a bit of a challenge. Premium Certified (i.e. guaranteed to work) max out at 5m. There are resellers claiming that their longer cables work. You'll need to do a bit of investigating to find out if they're as good as their word.

What does your wife do the TV? i.e. Freeview (built-in), external PVR, Amazon Prime or Netflix etc What's her 'Go-To' source and what else does she use regularly?

Signal handling: a matrix switch would make sense. The rub is cost. It's almost as cheap to buy an AV receiver with dual HDMI outputs.
 
Yes, i've been following the other thread about certified cables. I think my total run will end up being 8m-10m

Mainly she watches built in tv functions. It has freeview built in and has apps for Netflix and prime. She then uses an Amazon TV box for kodi purposes. I think have an Xbox One X, however it's not used very often.

I had considered an AV receiver but space is an issue as my amp (Yamaha S801) is already pretty bulky. I think what i'd look to do is get a 2x1 hdmi splitter and have the Fire TV into that and then 2 outputs, one to the tv and another to the projector. Then use the optical from the Fire tv into the dac on my amp. That way on the projector i have the options of all the streaming apps along with audio. If i want to use the xbox on the projector then i can use switch the cable over from the Fire TV to the Xbox.

I probably won't use the xbox as much on the projector thinking about it, as it's usually late at night i play and i use bluetooth headphones connected to the tv. Don't think many projectors offer that do they?
 
I think you've got most of the bases covered. Running just the Fire TV as a shared source to the projector and TV does simplify things. If you run in to problems with the control side of things then let me know, I have a few toys that do the things that you thought you were getting with Harmony and a lot more besides.
 
Marvt74 said:
Great post.

I think that’s my current thinking. Particularly as my wife has ok’d the projector on the wall behind the sofa. I’m 95% sure the joists run in line of the projection so hoping that cabling is easy enough. Just needs a channel on either wall for taking cables to/from the projector. As mentioned. Doing it this way means I can send a sub cable with it which makes things better and avoid another wireless solution

My current thinking is the Optoma HD40. I’d prefer 4K if I can with having Netflix in 4K and an Xbox one x. I know this isn’t a “proper” 4K projector though.

Do you have any thoughts on how to handle cables? I’d still like 2x sources going to the tv. To avoid complications for my wife I want to try and avoid too many interactions needed. Think if the tv can just “work” then it’s better.

I did buy a Harmony Elite as thought the macros would be good but it was a bit painful to use and had awful lag compared to the tv remote.
Click to expand...

The pixel-shifted 4k is 4k. I've got the UHD300x and I'm totally glad I got that over a 1080p model....4k content looks amazeballs.

I'm just using a cheapo 10m HDMI cable at the moment with 4k60, it does very occasionally lose signal and needs to resync, but it'll do until I get a permanent fixing in place.
 
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