Soldato
i think blaming computer games for the way kids behave is just an easy way out for the parents not bringing there kids up right
under age gamers
- Thread starter blueshift
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Associate
As a parent of an 11 year old boy it's something I've given a huge amount of thought to, and had countless discussions with other parents, both gamers and non-gamers.
One thing seemed apparent, parents of children who'd progressed into their teens were far more relaxed than those who either didn't have kids or had toddlers.
Personally I concluded from this that a lot of censorship is born from fear, fear of what will happen to the child from playing/seeing content.
There is no right or wrong in my mind, only what the parent is comfortable with, and if that parent is concerned enough to be giving it some thought, then whatever the decision is, it will likely be the right one because the kid's got the parental attention needed to balance that kid.
I went through this recently when my 11 year old wanted MW2, all his friends were playing it and the peer pressure was incredible. I talked about it and thought about it a lot before letting him get it. I won't let him play through the airport scene (you know the one), but I'm pretty sure he'll either get to play that scene at a mates or will have a go at it on the sly. The fact is he knows how wrong that scene is, and he's also aware of why I wont let him play it so it's not like he's going to come out of the experience desensitised towards crowds of strangers.
That said, there are some parents who have zero concern over their childs playing habits or online behaviour, there's no helping them. But personally I don't think it's as simple as saying "sorry, you aren't old enough because the label on the box says 15". That's lazy parenting IMHO. A kid will have a lot more respect for a parent that can say "Sorry, you're not old enough because I've looked into it and there is some content throughout the game I don't want you exposed to"
One thing seemed apparent, parents of children who'd progressed into their teens were far more relaxed than those who either didn't have kids or had toddlers.
Personally I concluded from this that a lot of censorship is born from fear, fear of what will happen to the child from playing/seeing content.
There is no right or wrong in my mind, only what the parent is comfortable with, and if that parent is concerned enough to be giving it some thought, then whatever the decision is, it will likely be the right one because the kid's got the parental attention needed to balance that kid.
I went through this recently when my 11 year old wanted MW2, all his friends were playing it and the peer pressure was incredible. I talked about it and thought about it a lot before letting him get it. I won't let him play through the airport scene (you know the one), but I'm pretty sure he'll either get to play that scene at a mates or will have a go at it on the sly. The fact is he knows how wrong that scene is, and he's also aware of why I wont let him play it so it's not like he's going to come out of the experience desensitised towards crowds of strangers.
That said, there are some parents who have zero concern over their childs playing habits or online behaviour, there's no helping them. But personally I don't think it's as simple as saying "sorry, you aren't old enough because the label on the box says 15". That's lazy parenting IMHO. A kid will have a lot more respect for a parent that can say "Sorry, you're not old enough because I've looked into it and there is some content throughout the game I don't want you exposed to"
Adding my 2 cents here from my personal experience.
I think age rating is a good thing and should be followed, but I also think it depends on the child etc. I played any game at any age rating with some guidelines from my parents but I took everything as a game, as form of entertainment, so did my brother and even my little sister now.
Yet I find some people are greatly affected by games the same way as some people take films much for seriously (Avatards). Even now we joke about so late 20 year olds taking WoW very seriously and people with that mentality usually takes games much more seriously which then in turns affects the mental perception of life. I believe these are few and far apart but it only takes a minority to cause controversy.
As for the young ones that are screaming on Xbox Live thats just pure immaturity and I don't think you will ever get ride of it, I used to play Hal Life 1 back in the day when I was around 9-10 and I was very civilised (granted this is early years of online gaming). It's also become much more socially acceptable over recent years for younger gamers to be screaming down headsets online. This I think is wrong as the online gaming community isn't a nice bunch so they can't help but be brought into the swearing/screaming.
The answer? Well there is many ways of going around it but 70% of parents who let there kids play on Xbox Live on an 18+ game probably don't care too much about enforcing rules, this makes the Xbox Live parenting features pointless and age ratings and online material warnings void. With my little sister I turn the voice comms off to help online gaming seem a little cleaner.
I think age rating is a good thing and should be followed, but I also think it depends on the child etc. I played any game at any age rating with some guidelines from my parents but I took everything as a game, as form of entertainment, so did my brother and even my little sister now.
Yet I find some people are greatly affected by games the same way as some people take films much for seriously (Avatards). Even now we joke about so late 20 year olds taking WoW very seriously and people with that mentality usually takes games much more seriously which then in turns affects the mental perception of life. I believe these are few and far apart but it only takes a minority to cause controversy.
As for the young ones that are screaming on Xbox Live thats just pure immaturity and I don't think you will ever get ride of it, I used to play Hal Life 1 back in the day when I was around 9-10 and I was very civilised (granted this is early years of online gaming). It's also become much more socially acceptable over recent years for younger gamers to be screaming down headsets online. This I think is wrong as the online gaming community isn't a nice bunch so they can't help but be brought into the swearing/screaming.
The answer? Well there is many ways of going around it but 70% of parents who let there kids play on Xbox Live on an 18+ game probably don't care too much about enforcing rules, this makes the Xbox Live parenting features pointless and age ratings and online material warnings void. With my little sister I turn the voice comms off to help online gaming seem a little cleaner.
Soldato
I think there is a massive element of common sense here..
With my kids, I don't necessarily look at the age rating, just my own sense of suitability, I do not let my 4/6 year olds play violent FPS games, I do think that it would slightly affect their development in a negative way, but I'm not sanctimonious with it.
On the flip side, my Brother lets all his kids play every latest FPS game going, irrespective of age rating, even when his youngest was 6, I never did agree with this, but just let it be, however he is the one that has a go at me because I don't let my kids play COD etc as I feel they are too young and impressionable.
As a laugh, when he got quite angry with me because I dare say "No, I don't let my kids play COD etc because I think kids at a young age are quite impressionable", he said that was a load of balls, so half jokingly asked his 8 year old son "If you got in a fight at school, would you whip your AK47 out and shoot them?", to which his son replied "No, of course not Dad".. So my brother then looks at me all smugly, however his son then added "But I'd get my rocket launcher out and fry his ass"..
I just LOL'd massively at that point...
His kids are fairly well grounded, so I don't honestly think they'll grow up to be monsters, but if you see the massive tantrums they get if he switches off their PS3/Xbox, with them wielding anything around them in some mentally angry manner, you can't help wonder if the violence they see/do in the games does fuel/train this type of response at times..
I'm on the fence, I'm not against others doing it unless it's damn obvious it's affecting the kid, but I'm certainly showing some common sense with my own kids..
With my kids, I don't necessarily look at the age rating, just my own sense of suitability, I do not let my 4/6 year olds play violent FPS games, I do think that it would slightly affect their development in a negative way, but I'm not sanctimonious with it.
On the flip side, my Brother lets all his kids play every latest FPS game going, irrespective of age rating, even when his youngest was 6, I never did agree with this, but just let it be, however he is the one that has a go at me because I don't let my kids play COD etc as I feel they are too young and impressionable.
As a laugh, when he got quite angry with me because I dare say "No, I don't let my kids play COD etc because I think kids at a young age are quite impressionable", he said that was a load of balls, so half jokingly asked his 8 year old son "If you got in a fight at school, would you whip your AK47 out and shoot them?", to which his son replied "No, of course not Dad".. So my brother then looks at me all smugly, however his son then added "But I'd get my rocket launcher out and fry his ass"..
I just LOL'd massively at that point...His kids are fairly well grounded, so I don't honestly think they'll grow up to be monsters, but if you see the massive tantrums they get if he switches off their PS3/Xbox, with them wielding anything around them in some mentally angry manner, you can't help wonder if the violence they see/do in the games does fuel/train this type of response at times..
I'm on the fence, I'm not against others doing it unless it's damn obvious it's affecting the kid, but I'm certainly showing some common sense with my own kids..
Soldato
I'm torn. I played violent games from a young age, and still do now, and it hasn't had an effect on me. However, there are people who it will effect. The same argument can be applied for many things (alcohol, weed, films etc).
my 6 and 7 year olds have xbox 360s and have had for a year or two. I let them play the lego games and other suitable kids games eg viva pinata plus my son plays pes6 and my daughter plays lips
my point, however, is that my kids tantrum wildly just like ur brothers if i turn off the games consoles, particularly my son. i think its more a thing with kids rather than the content they are exposed too
I will conceded though that my son DID whack his younger sister with a lightsaber after a session on lego start wars
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Associate
underage kids are always going to be playing 18* games. i remember back in 2004 (being 12 years old) i went n got san andreas and playing it on my m8s ps2
Soldato
My main gripe is parents buying the kids these games and then moaning about all the violence and swearing in them! This happened with MW2 - loads of parents moaning about the airport scene,despite the fact it's them that let their 10 year olds play a game with a huge
18
certificate on the front
18
certificate on the front
I also think ratings are important and especially agree with what Gackt said.
I remember GTA when it first came out, was it the first BBFC 18 rated game?
Or was that something like Night Trap on the Mega-CD?
There was certainly a lot of controversy though and I remember seeing a lot of kids in shops being turned away.
Flip forward to the recent GTA 4 release and I was in a shop waiting to pay for something when two young boys, must have been about 8-9ish were turned away because of their age. Two minutes later, they push back through the queue dragging their totally oblivious mother to the sales assistant who then stands in-front of her confused. The sales assistant then explains that she can't sell it to them because they are too young... the boys then protest to the mother, who buys it and the boys then just laugh and jeer at the assistant!
Video Games didn't have ratings when I was a kid and certainly weren't realistic like they are today, the only comparison really is films. I remember that there were some people parents who let them watch whatever they wanted, but in general, myself and most friends weren't watching 18 rated stuff.
The trouble with video games is that I think a lot of parents are clueless, so they think nothing of it. Also with how video gamers themselves have aged, many will let their young kids play. The real trouble is then when people start trying to get them banned, however it's usually the case that the child shouldn't of had access to it in the first place.
The original GTA with its terrible graphics and top down view is miles apart from today's 3D version. While most won't copy what they see in video games, exposing kids to adult themes before they are fully developed and know right from wrong is never a good idea.
Society has certainly changed, it seems like childhood ends much sooner than when I was a kid. Anything that can be done to slow that down is important.
I remember GTA when it first came out, was it the first BBFC 18 rated game?
Or was that something like Night Trap on the Mega-CD?
There was certainly a lot of controversy though and I remember seeing a lot of kids in shops being turned away.
Flip forward to the recent GTA 4 release and I was in a shop waiting to pay for something when two young boys, must have been about 8-9ish were turned away because of their age. Two minutes later, they push back through the queue dragging their totally oblivious mother to the sales assistant who then stands in-front of her confused. The sales assistant then explains that she can't sell it to them because they are too young... the boys then protest to the mother, who buys it and the boys then just laugh and jeer at the assistant!
Video Games didn't have ratings when I was a kid and certainly weren't realistic like they are today, the only comparison really is films. I remember that there were some people parents who let them watch whatever they wanted, but in general, myself and most friends weren't watching 18 rated stuff.
The trouble with video games is that I think a lot of parents are clueless, so they think nothing of it. Also with how video gamers themselves have aged, many will let their young kids play. The real trouble is then when people start trying to get them banned, however it's usually the case that the child shouldn't of had access to it in the first place.
The original GTA with its terrible graphics and top down view is miles apart from today's 3D version. While most won't copy what they see in video games, exposing kids to adult themes before they are fully developed and know right from wrong is never a good idea.
Society has certainly changed, it seems like childhood ends much sooner than when I was a kid. Anything that can be done to slow that down is important.
Surely it's down to the game (content) and the child. I mean it's perspective. Allowing a 9 year old loose on GTA is beyond irresponsible, then allowing that same child 4 years older to play Call of Duty is fine in my eyes. Remember most games have options to disable gore and swearies. I think parents should 'vet' their children's in home entertainment.
This!
Disagree. Unless you think that people aren't affected by their experiences. In which case, have a
.Seems weird that if you are 17 years old, you can't buy Cert 18 games, rent Saw from Blockbusters or buy cigarettes, but you can drive a car as fast as you like (even though it's illegal) on the road and be involved in / witness the most horrific accident.
Like a lot of things in this Country the Law is very outdated!
Like a lot of things in this Country the Law is very outdated!
Disagree. Unless you think that people aren't affected by their experiences. In which case, have a
And you should have a
for clearly believing playing GTA under the age of 18 will make you a psychopathic, prostitute killing, drug dealing maniac. Which is effectively what you're saying.EDIT - Ok, I rushed that response to the above post without fully reading your initial post. While I agree to an extent with what you're saying, you are equally as guilty of being ignorant. You state that clearly being 17 years and 364 days old doesn't mean you're not mature enough to play the game, and yet you state a 9 year old shouldn't be able to play it either. What gives you the right to judge? Yes, the child is still developing but do you not think that good parenting would teach the child that the game is just that, a game, and that in real life these things are very bad?
I am not calling from the removal of age classifications, far from it, however criticizing someone who allows their 'underage' child to play an 18 rated game is moronic. You have no right to say what that person's child should or shouldn't be able to do. The parent should ensure that if they play the game, their are suitably educated.
Now, where's my *****s at? I feel the need for some stabbin'.
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I was even worse than most kids though. As well as the usual GTAs and 18 rated films, I also had a weird curiosity to discover what happens around the world by watching videos you'd find on Ogrish, etc. You name it, I've seen it. I'm not a serial killer or anything, the only difference now is that I've pretty much become desensitised to everything. Nothing bothers me at all which I guess is beneficial. So overall I think it was worth it.
I agree to some extent though. I wouldn't want my own kids playing games such as GTA at a young age, but on the other hand I don't regret doing it myself.
I agree to some extent though. I wouldn't want my own kids playing games such as GTA at a young age, but on the other hand I don't regret doing it myself.
Disagree. Unless you think that people aren't affected by their experiences. In which case, have a
By their experiences?
Okay then, I'll give you that somebody coming back from Iraq will be affected in some way by their experience over there, but are you saying that's comparable to 'experiencing' a headshot in Call of Duty?
I hope not.
Soldato
Nope. My parents let my play GTA when I was about 14 and I am better than you / most people.
No it wasn't. That accolade belongs to a text based game called 'Jack The Ripper'.