Unidentified 4mb Internet Connection after Ethernet to Switch pulled from Router! Mystery.

[Mkultra40]

Evening all, first post and yes a very weird one to kick things off

Just to give a brief description of our home environment..

House is wired on CAT 5e, 6 and 7 .... 90% of stuff is hard wired, TV's, Sonos, PoE Cameras, PC's Printers etc. We have a decent speed ISP (1Gb) that runs to a modem, out to a Netgear Orbi Router (RBS 853) that then feeds back to 2 Netgear 48 port PoE switches (GS752TPPV3's) .... there are maybe 4 or 5 small Netgear PoE 8 Port Switches in various places around the house. On top of that, wireless wise, the Orbi Router links to 5 Orbi Satellites. All are up to date firmware wise. There's no clever network configuration .... it's all vanilla out of the box stuff. Security wise we use Dashlane. We also use Norton 360 on all devices or Netgear Armor.

It all works and has been in place in that or a similar configuration for many years.

But for some weeks (maybe months) the wired performance has been poor. A reboot of router and modem fixes this for a while then performance drops. This maybe a red herring. This evening we did find a bad wired link and the overall network performance seems massively better and more consistent.

If we run an RJ45 from the switch direct to a desktop PC, it has an internet network connection of over 900mb. All good. But if we pull the RJ45 between the switch and the Orbi router and keep the RJ45 between switch and PC, the PC still has a NW connection of 4mb!!!!

We have no idea how it's connecting to the internet. Any ideas? The only known link to the internet is the VM ISP modem which hard wires to the Orbi router. I think I'm right in saying the VM Modem/router (a Super Hub 5) does not have wireless functions if only being used as a modem.

Appreciate any ideas or fault finding you might have. Many thanks in advance

 

[Mkultra40]

Draw your topology out, especially where the Orbi nodes are concerned

APologies for the late reply. Yes I will try to do this and come back weekend. Many thanks

 

[Mkultra40]

What sonos is it? Have you accounted for STP in your network setup, have you configured your sonos boxes to behave ? Sonos is notorious for killing networks if not configured or used with non-supported switches.

It's just normal up to date Sonos boxes .... Amps, Ports, SW's, all up to date devices, all SW up to date and all RJ45 connected. Totally out of the box. Actually there are two Sonos 100's that are wireless thinking on. Interesting, I wasn't aware of Sonos impacting networks. Again our switches and wireless devices are all pretty recent stuff and totally vanilla. Apologies I'm not sure what STP is.

 

[Mkultra40]

oh i didn't notice op says he still has connection ofter removing the cable to the router? So what is your public ip on this ghost 4mb connection ? is your router providing dhcp ? What ip is your pc getting ? from where ?


are you sure : We have no idea how it's connecting to the internet. Any ideas? The only known link to the internet is the VM ISP modem which hard wires to the Orbi router. I think I'm right in saying the VM Modem/router (a Super Hub 5) does not have wireless functions if only being used as a modem.

sometimes VM reboot stuff just becuase...
To check if your Virgin Media Super Hub 5 is in modem mode, look for a green light on the hub's LED band, indicating it's in modem mode.


switch your modem off.... now do u still have internet ?

Yes the Orbi router provides dhcp. Best I know the PC gets it's IP from that device. Yes the Super Hub 5 has the green light on. Nice idea, no I didn't try that, yes will power it down and see what connection we have. Will report back. Many thanks. Interesting.

 

[Mkultra40]

Has someone stuck a fallback 4G connection in of some type somewhere? and/or someone's phone is somehow sharing a tethered connection on the network?

Thanks for that suggestion. is a good question. I don't think so but that very answer means I don't really know ..... Yes we will do a 'phones off' and Super Hub 5 'off' and see if it still persists. Will also take a screen shot of the PC page showing the data. Thanks for that. And indeed thanks to all who have took the time to forward answers ... they are a help for sure in the fault finding.

 

[Mkultra40]

Configure STP settings to work with Sonos

Sonos uses Spanning Tree Protocol (STP) to maintain communication between the products in your system when in a wired setup. This article provides our recommended STP settings for managed network switches to ensure Sonos works on your network.

support.sonos.com

The Pain of Spanning Tree Issues with Sonos Devices: A Guide for IT Pros - Athena Networks

If you’ve ever managed a network that includes Sonos devices, you may have run into a unique headache: spanning tree issues. While Sonos devices offer fantastic sound quality and seamless multi-room audio experiences, they can wreak havoc on network performance if not properly managed, often due...

athenanetworks.com.au

there's about a billion results on google for this as it's a very common issue that most people dont face until they have managed or multiple switches in their nework environment

Gosh that's interesting, I had no idea that Sonos might not be playing well. We have had it forever. There again it could be we had this issue forever. Definitely today I will be reading up on that as it is indeed our biggest addition as it were .... it's not a big house but we do have maybe 10 - 12 Sonos devices .... and growing. Thanks for the links and steer. It's interesting how we can take sure that's 'always been there' are working well .... maybe it's not the case. And even if it proves be OK, it's well worth a step by step check through as I think we have over time gathered very solid NW kit for a domestic install ... but maybe we are not getting the best out of it.

 

[Mkultra40]

1. Turn your Virgin Superhub/router/modem or whatever supplied equipment you have from virgin off.
2. Do you still have internet connection on that PC?

YES > A) Something on your network is most likely sharing an internet connection via either connecting to some public wifi or via a mobile phone providers 3G/4G network. Check your Orbi router doesn't have some sim card backup in it or anything like that. Try turning off all of the switches around the house one by one, to isolate the device that would be sharing this connection. Check if your PC has bluetooth or a wifi device in it which is connected somehow to something providing shared internet connection.

NO > B) Similar to the above, but it was obtaining a route out to the internet via your actual ISP (Virgin media) by way of some other device on your network sharing a connection. Perform similar isolation tasks to find it.

Given the slow 4mb connection, I would favour it going out to internet via A.

Makes a lot of sense. Will check that end of day ... unfortunately No.1 son works from home some days and is hogging the network right now. But an excellent idea to try.

The router doesn't have any SIM but a good call to check. As you say, it seems very possible one of our mobiles is tethered to something. I know the wife uses a very powerful Chromebook and ordinarily only at home but we were playing with tetheing it to a SOny mobile .... maybe we got further than we thought without realising it!

Thanks again for the fault finding logic. I used to have a few skills in this area but now realising how long ago that was.

 

[Mkultra40]

Just curious
If you have 1Gbs connection
That's fibre to the property?
Why a modem?
My ont serves as the modem then straight to router

Unless its something to do with virgin
Never had virgin so no idea
How they do it

Yes I believe so. We were part of the original Telewest area to have the paths dug up with the promise of proper fast internet way way back.

The connection to the back of the VM SH5 is a cable connection and the feed was fed to the house front and then under the floor boards of two rooms .... a total pain but a nice job. But I think as such we may get the NW updates and speed improvements a little earlier than other parts of the NW ... I could be wrong. It's not like the Sky/BT thing where it's a telephone type connection and wall socket.

The SH5 includes a router of some sort and I think it's 4/5 RJ45 ports. But that function is disabled and just the modem part used. I link it direct to the back of the Netgear Orbi RBS853. Then RJ45 lines out to each of the Netgear 48 port PoE switches and the other two to two QNAP NAS's.

I'm not aware of any other way (that VM would approve) that would work. reliability wise it's very good. Speed wise it's pretty good .... more than enough for our needs. It speed tests at between 950 - 800 and anywhere in-between. Not as cheap as it used to be but what is?

 

[Mkultra40]

Your Sonos boxes are probably bridging over Wi-Fi. Did the switch that your PC was plugged into that was getting Internet after you unplugged the Orbi have a Sonos speaker on it?

They both do Caged ... thw PC links to one of the ports on the 2 48 port Netgears and the Sonos boxes (approx 12 of them) are spread across both switches. There are none connected (by wires) the Orbi system, just two Era 100 Speakers wirelessly on the SOnos mesh system I think it is. I've checked today and it seems whilst they have RJ45's on the back on them and we hard wired up to use them, that the Sonos config we have in that room (2 Era 100's, a Sonos ARC and a Sons Sub) will not allow a wired connection to anything by the Sono Arc, which then insists on making wireless connections to the 100's and Sub. Strange but true.

The performance of the wireless Orbi system is really solid and not struggling in any way.

Could you explain a little what you mean by 'bridging over wifi' please .... not 100% I'm understanding that too well. Thanks

 

[Mkultra40]

Just a mad latest update .... where to start?

After reading the good advice about Sonos & STP, we did some testing and checking. As mentioned, there are some well documented issues about mixed Sonos wireless and wired networks.

Anyway as part of this testing we measured the speed on a wired desktop PC to the internet with a long standing Sonos Play 5 connected to a port on the Netgear switch and then to router. This is what we saw .... ahh .... I can't see how to link an image from the PC I'm typing on .... strange. It only allows from media sources not the device?

Anyway, basically with the Sonos Play 5 connected we saw near 900mb internet connection at the desktop PC.

When we disconnected the router but the Play 5 still wired to the switch .... we still see 4mb connection to internet. But the Play 5 has no wifi or bluetooth functionality. It can be wirelessly connected to the network.

And when disconnecting the Play 5, and the router, there is of course no connection.

Very odd.

 

[Mkultra40]

Sounds like you have network loops/bridges

You need to draw out your topology like what was suggested In the first post

Yes will definitely jump on this. Apologies limited time to do this in a proper way. But it's not forgotten about. Thanks for the nudge

 

[Mkultra40]

Sounds like you've got some form of wireless bridge operating without you knowing. I wouldn't be suprised if this is a "feature" that's enabled by default. The topology diagram will help identify possible sources.

For example, as a temporary solution, I'm currently using a few Unifi APs as a bridge/mesh, which I think would look similar to your cable removed situation.

Could be, could be The wifi performance is excellent in fact. The Orbi devices are quite powerful and not so heavily used.

The topology in theory is quite clean, not so complex but nevertheless to do it well will take me a little while. I have a SW package I downloaded to try do it called Paesslar. But it's not exactly simple ... to me at least. I also have access to the Netgear Insight app/service that comes with the switches. But same again, I need configure it and learn a bit about it. If I can do that then I think both will create a network map that should prove useful. Just takes a little time.

In parallel I'm checking the small number of 8 port PoE switches that are attached the 2 x 48 port switches. These are often were things go AWOL. but so far the ones I've checked over look configured correctly.