Universities 2012 on-wards

Nah, I only just put my application in half an hour ago.Some of my class at college are yet to apply, but I think January is the deadline.
Just cost me 22 squid just to send my ucas app in :(
Let the debt begin!

I think this was when people still thougt it was Cambridge Uni rather than ARU Cambridge.

kd
 
The higher fees are doing exactly what they're supposed to do. People who don't realise that the student "debt" doesn't really behave like a debt are inexplicably being put off by it, but people who do understand it will go to university anyway and get a decent education out of it.

The whole "now people can't afford to go to university" thing is a massive red herring.

In answer to the OP: it might not be in your daughter's best interests unless she's really keen on experiencing university life, or has her eye on a career that would be enhanced by having a degree.
 
What does she want to do?
That degree doesn't sound great, you can get jobs in the public service without such a degree.
Although there qualifications that are very sought after.

IMO university is now only for those with the ability and do a sought after degree. Othewise it's not worth and there's a lot to say about gaining 3 years experience whilst doing relevant qualifications.
 
If she wants to be a copper, then the degree won't really matter nor will I suspect it'll help her out much. Though, what I can suggest is that she gets involved with a fair bit of extracurricular activities that will give her an edge over other applicants. I know someone with a 2.1 LLB with little to no extracurricular activities on their CV who wasn't succesful in their police application due to a lack of experience. My friend, with a 2.2 BA (Ordinary) in Graphic Design from a mickey mouse university got in because he was involved with the Officer Training Corps.
 
For me it's still a no brainer, though I can't help feel that degree does is something that is not worth that amount of debt. Personally I will be heading for a Meng in Electronic engineering, lots of jobs out there and it can only get better :).
Any traditional degree is probably the best path anyone can take, you can get into sectors that even those who have done the most relevant degree cannot. A lot of finance companies are taking stem graduates and not economics/business studies.
I am concerned at how few stem students there are, my physics course has very low numbers and it's the same with other Stem courses at college. Then we have courses like buddhism which are packed to the brim, it is concerning and I feel tough action might have to be taken so our economy can get back in the front seat of the world.
 
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However, as you know only to well, the uni costs are trebled that of this years intake. I’ve calculated that she’ll come out of the end of the three years with the minimum of £42K debt plus other living costs, travel, interest etc. I had saved a little towards this but nowhere near the kind of costs are they mentioning. All of a sudden reality bites.

It's no debt at all. With the new repayment threshold I'd actually rather go to Uni now than before.

(I am currently a student under the old system)


What happens to the debt if you move abroad? I'm guessing you carry on paying? :p

No, you don't.
 
What happens to the debt if you move abroad? I'm guessing you carry on paying? :p

They trak you down, charge you legal fees in doing so (e.g., willpay a private investigator, ask foreign immigration and police), and your parents are usualyl then legally liable also.

Of course it is not that easy for them to know where you are. You can live off the radar. Little different to getting tons of laons and disapearrign to asia etc.


You make contributions based on your salary the same as the UK, or ou pay a default rte based ont eh country you are living in (based on estimated salaries and living costs).
 
No, you don't.
:confused:

Yes you do, you are meant to fill in a sort of self assessment form.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Educati...AndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/DG_10034866
If you go abroad
If you go abroad for more than three months, you need to let the Student Loans Company know. You need to fill in an overseas income assessment form and give evidence of your income or means of support while you’re abroad.* You’ll then be given a repayment schedule.
 
What happens to the debt if you move abroad? I'm guessing you carry on paying? :p

They introduced a slider-scale a couple of years ago to dictate the threshold after which you start paying back your student loan - obviously out in other countries where their currency is not as valued then a salary equivalent of £15,000 equivalent (threshold for me) would be living like a king.

Of course, you could just ignore it - I don't know if they would arrest you if you arrived in the UK after ignoring all of their contact asking for the loan to be repayed!
 
My daughter is in the process of registering for intake at Uni next year. We’ve been to see a campus at Cambridge last weekend and have to say it’s all very impressive. She’s completed the UCAS on-line registration this week and has selected her five preferences.

However, as you know only to well, the uni costs are trebled that of this years intake. I’ve calculated that she’ll come out of the end of the three years with the minimum of £42K debt plus other living costs, travel, interest etc. I had saved a little towards this but nowhere near the kind of costs are they mentioning. All of a sudden reality bites.

Although I’m more than happy subsidise some of her living expenses I have to say that the thought of my daughter having such a high debt scares the pants off me. I feel kind of guilty that this should be my burden but my wife has made it perfectly clear that this is her choice.

The problem with the government now cutting the subsidised tuition fees leave me a little sceptical about the whole thing.

Firstly, is there really any career that’s warrants a £40k plus debt for a very small chance that of employment in the chosen field?

Secondly, does the qualification really give her any further opportunities that her college BTeC wouldn’t or where other people have gained necessary and essential job training?

Lastly, is it going to be that students actually won’t bother applying? Early indications that UCAS applications are already down by this time last year.

Students would normally see the “uni years” as a first opportunity to leave home and lead an independent life style away from their parents.. but is this really worth the cost? Many students may seek commutable universities as living in just won’t be an option.

It appears to me that University will really be one to those that are on either side of the income spectrum. Those in the middle and the majority hit the hardest.

In my daughter eyes, she sees that although she’ll have the large debt, she can also pay the small repayments when she reaches a salary of 22k (thereabouts) until the debt is forfeited after 30 years. That’s all very well, but I’d expect someone at university to have high prospects and a highly paid job at the end otherwise what’s the point.

Students are now facing much tougher choices if in fact some have any. I was wondering if there were any parents in the same position, or any perspective students that are up against the same conundrum.

Thanks for reading

Having only read the OP so far I would say "it depends" and "No"...

It depends on the course for one, if she is doing History of Art and gets a job as a secretary or in something as unrelated to her degree then the question of whether she should have gone to uni is a good one. If she's doing maths and ends up as an accountant/scientist etc then there is only one answer, university all the way.

The next part, facing tougher choices is not really accurate. Think of the tuition fees loan as a capped tax and you'll be closer to what it really is, it's a loan that only takes a small percentage of your income after a certain amount and is scrapped a few years after. It's what, a few pence per pound after ~£20k? if she gets a slightly better job after she graduates with better pay then it's certainly worth it. People who really think it will weigh people down moreso than now shouldn't be going to uni tbh, they obviously aren't really intelligent enough...:p
 
Nathan could well be right here.......

It's a tough choice, but she really wants to be certain before committing. Before the introduction of fees there really was much less to lose, and more to gain which made it an easier decision.

Yes indeed and you both have raised very strong points.

If it's the case of saving as much money as possible then ultimately Huddy and his daughter have to make the decision.

If it's the case of mummy and daddy will miss her lots of lots, tell her to come home every other week. Everyone is happy :)

No it's not a case of that at all.. Don't get me wrong, I love my daughter to bits and would would like to experience Uni life as it were.. but things have changed and we have to weigh up the options. What appears to be a good idea might not make practical sense. What father wouldn't protect their son or daughters best interest. I know you mean well by the way :)

If she is sure she wants to go to university, I wouldn't worry too much about the debt. Remember, it's deliberately designed to make people think twice about going to university for the 'experience' rather than the education/future prospects - it should be putting people off that aren't too sure and could do an apprenticeship or similar instead. Those people that genuinely want to go to further their job prospects etc shouldn't be put off by the fees, given the loan/aid structures in place.

I'm a bit puzzled by this statement. Maybe you could clarify. Why would any governing body want to put anyone off going to Uni?

Another thing - Is she certain about commuting? I'm sure there's plenty of students out there that enjoyed it but in my experience, everyone that commuted at my university didn't enjoy it half as much as those that lived there or there abouts. I think the most valuable experience is the life skills you pick up, meeting new people from a wide range of places, self-motivation, other bits and bobs - all whilst you're enjoying yourself. I guess it depends on the individual but I don't mind saying that I was a proper geek when I went to university, I deliberately picked one 3-4 hrs drive from my family home and decided to give up certain things (online gaming etc) when I got there - I did all of that and loved my time there, I came out a completely different person - for the better too. I know living on-campus adds bills but those are the most valuable bills imo.

I also noted a distinct change of comments once you stated it wasn't Cambridge University - this is true to some extent, and relates closely to my first point, if it will increase her earning potential later in life (this means being realistic about employers' views of her university and course choice) then there's no reason not to go but clearly Cambridge University is a world-renown university that will get your foot in the door at almost any firm, which sadly isn't true for some other universities.

You raise some very good points as many other have. Putting my own predicament aside for one moment, do you not think most students would now consider a commute given the rising costs? It's not ideal as I said above but practicality and common sense has to play. £42k + is expensive experience.
 
Personally, I would not consider a public service degree from Anglia Ruskin to be worth £42k of debt. Maybe you could justify it by saying that she'll have a great time and widen her horizons... But if I really wanted to go to uni for that kind of reason I'd get good A levels (retake a year if needed), and go to a better uni, probably doing a more well known/respected course as you'd probably get a nicer experience, as well as better career prospects afterwards.

From the commuting point of view, being nearly a term into my first year, I would be really unhappy if I had to commute in from somewhere else now - living in halls with other people is just such great fun! I think she'd miss out a lot if you didn't live in halls.
 
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I know what you mean. I'm finishing my degree this year, just as my sister starts. Difference is that she'll be paying around the same in her first year as I did for my entire degree.

Tough times for some!

And how much pound for pound will she be worse off a year when she graduates?

Convince a uni to let her study a Masters. They only cost about 5k in total for tuition.

Admittedly I doubt you'd be able to convince Cambridge to let through an undergrad straight onto a Masters. But presumably she already has stunning A levels to even be considering Cambridge. So go for a slightly lesser uni and just sell yourself to get onto a Masters. It will be one hell of a shock to the system though. A levels are just a doss about. A Masters = almost like hard work.

Did you do this? If so I'm intrigued as I doubt there are many half decent unis who would let someone with little experience and no degree get onto a masters course, at least thats the experience with the uni I went to... It's either good degree (2:1+) and some experience or several years (at least) relevant experience.

On the other hand if they have lots of spaces they need to fill (DANGER, DANGER etc) then maybe they will take anyone they can make a profit from.
 
It's worth a shot. Uni's are desperate to fill empty spaces at the moment. Many are already relaxing undergrad entry requirements. Some may also be relaxing their postgrad entry requirements also...

Going back to my other post about masters... Decent (read courses you want to do to get a job) will still have a large number of people wanting to do them (something like 10:1 easily).
 
The vast majority of people that do a criminology degree or extended public service degree (I don't know what the **** that means) will (if they're lucky to get a job) end up in a dull public sector job earning about £30k a year.

So...ignoring inflation for the time being as the student fee gets inflation added to it....

Lets say working life in job related to criminology.... 40 years x £30k = £700,000
£700,000 - £42k tuition fee = £658,000.

A plumber that leaves work at 16 or 18 and joins a company that pays for their training will after training years earn on average about £30k a year (£700,000 lifetime). They will also have the prospect of becoming self employed an earning £50k-£60k a year.

I know the above example doesn't exactly help your daughter as I'm sure she doesn't want to do a trade, but all I'm trying to show is that unless the degree is going to basically guarantee a high salary job at the end of it, its much more profitable to get a career in some sort of profession that will train you and let you climb the ladder, whether its a trade, legal, finance, or management career.

Just think; when your daughter has finished her degree, she will have £42k tuition fee debt and approximately £12k living allowance debt. Now add the fact that she will probably want to save money towards a mortgage (say £20k) and it means that as soon as she starts he first ever proper little job as a graduate she will have a burden of £74,000 on her shoulders..... I'm struggling to save for a mortgage and I have a decent job and no student debt...so god help her.
 
You just made all that up :/

No, i live abroad, I know these things. I can scan the warning letter when I failed to respond to them while travelling for 3 months.

You either pay the same as in the UK (x% of your salary above a theshold), or you pay a default amount.
 
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