Universities push for even higher fees

[cymatty]

If Preston is all that's available to them for social mobility, then why stop them? A 'poor' degree is better than no degree and no a-levels. It's obviously not going to be any comparason to the likes of Oxbridge/UCL, etc. but the students are probably already well aware of that. I'd even say it shows a lot of gusto to be able to get up and earn a degree from having nothing. It wont get them into say, the top 100 companies but it will certainly help in other areas.

Agreed, I have no A levels just two AS levels and a NVQ 3, 4 in Accounting and Finance.

I then went to Huddersfield Uni (shock horror) and completed my degree in Accounting and Finance (BA Hons)

I applied for a Grad Job in one of (I think) the top 100 companies and my application was accepted. I have now changed to another Grad scheme in the same company.

The company are now paying for me to complete a Bsc Hons Degree.

So to call me worthless is way off the mark.

 

[growse]

By criticising all those arts based subjects you seem to be forgetting that a university is a place for high-level academic study, not simply for producing people to fill jobs.

All the best universities offer courses in English, geography, and social sciences such as economics and politics. To say these are useless is to tell all the people who work their arses off researching and teaching these disciplines that they are useless.

"Real world use", as you put it, is not black and white, but I don't know how you can say Social sciences, English, Art and geography have no use.

This.

Degrees are academic. End of conversation. If you have a degree that teaches you how to do a particular job, then it's not a degree any more, it's a vocational qualification. A degree's purpose is for the student to find out more about the particular academic area they're studying, and the university to train more people to be researchers in the field. (Proper) Universities care only about research, their undergraduate courses are just supporting their ultimate aim by prepping more research students.

It's amazing the number of people who apply to do law at (say) Cambridge, because they think that's how they get taught how to be a lawyer. A law degree is about the academic practice and research into various aspects of law, like criminology. The problem has come because many good vocational colleges offering good vocational courses have suddenly turned into universities overnight (a while back). Now an employer, or in fact anyone, doesn't know the difference between a guy who's studied to become an electrician (degree in electrical engineering from former polytechnic) and a guy who's actually studied the academic field of electrical engineering, who wouldn't necessarily make a great electrician.

 

[growse]

People forget just how big and how expensive Universities are to run. Most have at least 5 or 6 faculties each with numerous schools within each - with their own buildings, lecturers, administration staff, IT staff, site maintenance staff, security and so on.

The government doesn't expect you to pay back any of the student loan unless you start earning enough. And, even then, it is only 8 or 9% of what you earn about £14k which I think is very reasonable. If you do a good degree and do it well, you'll pay off a 3*£5k loan in a few years.

A lot of universities are heavily in debt as well. They're fundamentally not good profit-makers, and arguably shouldn't be.

 

[p4radox]

This.

Degrees are academic. End of conversation. If you have a degree that teaches you how to do a particular job, then it's not a degree any more, it's a vocational qualification. A degree's purpose is for the student to find out more about the particular academic area they're studying, and the university to train more people to be researchers in the field. (Proper) Universities care only about research, their undergraduate courses are just supporting their ultimate aim by prepping more research students.

It's amazing the number of people who apply to do law at (say) Cambridge, because they think that's how they get taught how to be a lawyer. A law degree is about the academic practice and research into various aspects of law, like criminology. The problem has come because many good vocational colleges offering good vocational courses have suddenly turned into universities overnight (a while back). Now an employer, or in fact anyone, doesn't know the difference between a guy who's studied to become an electrician (degree in electrical engineering from former polytechnic) and a guy who's actually studied the academic field of electrical engineering, who wouldn't necessarily make a great electrician.

/nods in agreement.

 

[4p]

Put it this way, to 'make' it in the industry you need to know the following (Media btw)..

Photoshop, Illustrator, Adobe prem/after effects, Dreamweaver and Final Cut Pro.

Now I'm so far into all those programs BAR Final Cut Pro this course is effectively dumbing me down. Our first lesson in UNIVERSITY was to make a 'robot man'. God damn.



I'm building up my portfolio to show potential employers but the matter of the fact is, nobody is taking on. A few people i know were laid off from their companies, used the companies contacts and basically undercut the company, talked to the clients and earnt more.

 

[Five_Star]

Modern degrees are watered down anyway to cater for the dross that apply. my computing degree could have been condensed into two years quite easily, or if they taught a full range of skills could have covered a lot more. Some computer science course routes didn't even cover any database work! For a modern programmer or computer science graduate not to know about databases is criminal.

With regards to the fees I don't feel what I paid was value for money at all, in hindsight I would have been much better (both financially and it terms of time spent learning) doing some skills based IT training as I develop applications with tools created by people more intelligent than me.

I do support university for everyone, it's just I feel that only the best and the brightest should go. The people that will be furthering the development of a particular field of study for example should go to university. If somebody can't afford to go but is academically suitable then yes financial assistance should be made available.

As stated by others this stunt will only reduce the number of business studies and media students you get serving you in shops.

 

[Nix]

With regards to the fees I don't feel what I paid was value for money at all, in hindsight I would have been much better (both financially and it terms of time spent learning) doing some skills based IT training as I develop applications with tools created by people more intelligent than me.

Yes, but how does one then go about judging who's applicable? As I've outlined: pre-university examinations aren't necessarily the best indicator of calibre, but merely 'luck' and some ability. We cannot have such a system unless we lived in a truly equalitarian state; we don't all get the equal high-standard education. Some may have health issues or other problems.

You'd be effectively closing doors to future doctors and professors. Indeed, it may take them to go to 'Preston' before they realise that goal, or able to even do anything about it.

 

[semi-pro waster]

Useless degrees DO make it bad. Law at Sheffield Hallam and you are useless, you probably don't even know half the stuff you would know compared to good uni graduates. I could have done engineering at Wolvohampton but the courses are 2-3 days a week and are not accredited by any of the institutes, because they are easy and therefore useless, despite having the name mechanical engineering. If I had gone to Nottingham it would be very hard but graduates are likely to start on 20k+.

This isn't entirely fair if you ask me (not that you did ) because some people will end up at the 'rubbish' universities through a combination of circumstances. I'll pick Abertay again because I know it well, the law department there is relatively newly accredited (I was in the first graduating year) yet I've got mates from the course who went on to pass their LLB and gain jobs in the law sector - the difference in level of knowledge between a Dundee graduate and an Abertay one isn't much it would seem.

A lot of people seem so hung up on where people study, a degree is a degree surely?

It is and it isn't, in theory everyone has passed the same level of accreditation and the universities all meet the same basic standards but saying you went to university XXX which is an ex-polytechnic doesn't have the same cachet as saying you went to Oxbridge. Your individual capabilities may have nothing to do with that judgement but that can matter nothing compared to the perception.

 

[SteamboatRocks]

This will be a big problem as people are already stuck at a “dead end”.

Right now the choice is to either further your education by going to college and uni.

Or go down an alternative route and study with a training provider.

So if College prices go up and Training Providers continue to offer courses that are largely unrecognized by most employers.

What are people supposed to do then? Self-Study?

 

[meghatronic]

A lot of people seem so hung up on where people study, a degree is a degree surely?

Where is potentially more important than the degree to be honest.