University Reputation

triggerthat · 21 Sep 2006 at 01:33

Thanks for the replies so far guys.

IceBus · 21 Sep 2006 at 02:06

For the UK it's pretty much Oxbridge>Russell Group>Everywhere else.

benjo plz. · 21 Sep 2006 at 02:39

IceBus said:
For the UK it's pretty much Oxbridge>Russell Group>Everywhere else.

Aren't Oxford and Cambridge Russell Group anyway?

Mulder · 21 Sep 2006 at 09:23

IceBus said:
For the UK it's pretty much Oxbridge>Russell Group>Everywhere else.

What about the 1994 group? That includes the likes of Durham, Bath, York and Warwick.

calnen · 21 Sep 2006 at 10:47

Mulder said:
What about the 1994 group? That includes the likes of Durham, Bath, York and Warwick.

Granted I'm biased (Yes, I'm at Durham

) , but I'm not convinced the Russell Group is a good guide to the best unis for this reason. There's a pack of about 10 unis that are all as good as each other after Oxbridge and Imperial, which all swap around in the league tables from year to year. The russell group has just taken half of them seemingly at random and left out the rest.

Back on topic, I do think uni reputation has a big effect on employability. Different courses are easier and harder than others, and so clearly this has an effect on the quality of the graduate - a 2:1 at a top uni means more than a 2:1 at Kingston, because the courses are harder at better unis.

Having said that, reputation isn't the whole story. Of course other things affect your employability too - experience, your actual degree grade, your personality at interview and so on. There's a balance. But those that are saying that 'my sister got a good job after going to a bad uni, therefore which uni you go to doesn't matter' are clearly talking ****.

Liefrich · 21 Sep 2006 at 10:58

Also the Russell Group is about Research which isnt all that relevent for undergraduates more so for postgraduates.

I think its a fair assumption that Higher class degrees from oxbridge and some "red brick" unis are held in higher regard than other universitys. However a lot of the 1960 unis are now also highly regarded see, Bath York Warwick.

But if you get a first class degree from anywhere its still an achievment.

IceBus · 21 Sep 2006 at 11:28

calnen said:
Granted I'm biased (Yes, I'm at Durham ) , but I'm not convinced the Russell Group is a good guide to the best unis for this reason. There's a pack of about 10 unis that are all as good as each other after Oxbridge and Imperial, which all swap around in the league tables from year to year. The russell group has just taken half of them seemingly at random and left out the rest.

There are actually 20 unis in the Russell Group - and the reason they're there is that they consistently score higher on research than any other universities. Here's the full list http://www.russellgroup.ac.uk/index1.html

When I said that Oxbridge>Russell Group I meant that they carry with them an even higher degree of degree "prestige" even though arguably a lot of the other Russell Group Unis beat them for certain degrees. Basically a degree in Dishwashing from Oxford would be seen as more valuable by some employers than a PPE from Abertay.

Hate · 21 Sep 2006 at 11:40

I have a CS degree from Sussex... I think its somewhere in the top 20ish... It didn't influence my choice nor have I been questioned where my degree is from.

It seems now most computer science degrees are stripping out the proper theory (semantics, computability & complexity etc) and turning it into a vocational course in actionscript

calnen · 21 Sep 2006 at 11:41

IceBus said:
There are actually 20 unis in the Russell Group - and the reason they're there is that they consistently score higher on research than any other universities.

My mistake, I thought there were about 8 for some reason.

And I've got a severe case of sour grapes about this now! Damn academic snobbery biting me in the ass...

semi-pro waster · 21 Sep 2006 at 11:46

IceBus said:
When I said that Oxbridge>Russell Group I meant that they carry with them an even higher degree of degree "prestige" even though arguably a lot of the other Russell Group Unis beat them for certain degrees. Basically a degree in Dishwashing from Oxford would be seen as more valuable by some employers than a PPE from Abertay.

Oi, I object to that, a degree from Abertay does you very nicely for a career in McDonalds. With any luck I might get to be a manager after a couple of years.

The reputation of a university is doubtless important but your personal qualities are, I suspect, rather more important. It can also work the other way, some people will not employ someone from Oxbridge due to what they may perceive to be the 'unrealistic' expectations that come from going there. Now that isn't always the case but then plenty of people who go to 'lesser' universities will be equally as capable and in some cases a better prospect. The point I am trying to make in this long-winded fashion is that a good universities reputation is only one factor in applying for a job, how you come across at an interview will be far more important.

IceBus · 21 Sep 2006 at 11:56

semi-pro waster said:
The reputation of a university is doubtless important but your personal qualities are, I suspect, rather more important. It can also work the other way, some people will not employ someone from Oxbridge due to what they may perceive to be the 'unrealistic' expectations that come from going there. Now that isn't always the case but then plenty of people who go to 'lesser' universities will be equally as capable and in some cases a better prospect. The point I am trying to make in this long-winded fashion is that a good universities reputation is only one factor in applying for a job, how you come across at an interview will be far more important.

Definitely - the reason I chose not to go to Oxbridge (well amongst the many) was I don't like the idea of automatically being inducted into some sort of Old Boys club whereby you look down on other unis and only hire your own.

I think the only good thing about unis with a good rep is that if there's nothing separating you at all from a candidate (either pre interview on paper or post interview) then having a degree from a more respected uni might clinch it. TBH my main reason for choosing a university was how well the course was taught, location and graduate take up from that uni.

theleg · 21 Sep 2006 at 12:27

IceBus said:
Definitely - the reason I chose not to go to Oxbridge (well amongst the many) was I don't like the idea of automatically being inducted into some sort of Old Boys club whereby you look down on other unis and only hire your own.

I think the only good thing about unis with a good rep is that if there's nothing separating you at all from a candidate (either pre interview on paper or post interview) then having a degree from a more respected uni might clinch it. TBH my main reason for choosing a university was how well the course was taught, location and graduate take up from that uni.

You turned down Oxbridge?

IceBus · 21 Sep 2006 at 12:53

Balddog said:
You turned down Oxbridge?

Didn't apply although I had the grades.

Visage · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:00

IceBus said:
Didn't apply although I had the grades.

So do a lot of people. Getting AAA or AAB predictions may well get you an interview, but 75% of interviewees get turned down.....

Visage · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:01

IceBus said:
Definitely - the reason I chose not to go to Oxbridge (well amongst the many) was I don't like the idea of automatically being inducted into some sort of Old Boys club whereby you look down on other unis and only hire your own.

BS. Its not like that at all.

Una · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:06

IceBus said:
Didn't apply although I had the grades.

I also had the grades, but I messed up the interview. Lots of people manage to get the grades, there is a lot more too it than that.

daz · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:09

Una said:
I also had the grades, but I messed up the interview.

Same here.

IceBus · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:18

Visage said:
BS. Its not like that at all.

Fair enough, but it was my choice not to go there.

Una said:
I also had the grades, but I messed up the interview. Lots of people manage to get the grades, there is a lot more too it than that.

So you're saying I should have applied, gone to the interview to see if I was 'good enough' and then turned them down, with no intention of actually going in the first place?

My opinion of Oxbridge is also tempered by the fact that people from our school got in who were far less intelligent than some who got turned down - but must have appealed by coming across as studious when in actual fact they could rote memorise facts without being able to form their own opinions on anything.

Visage · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:20

IceBus said:
Fair enough, but it was my choice not to go there.

It was your choice not to apply. Subtle difference.

Una · 21 Sep 2006 at 13:21

IceBus said:
Fair enough, but it was my choice not to go there.
So you're saying I should have applied, gone to the interview to see if I was 'good enough' and then turned them down, with no intention of actually going in the first place?

Not at all, I was just saying there is more to it than having the grades. I understand if you did not want to apply, a few of my friends didn't when they could have. You made it sound like you turned down an offer which is quite different.