Unused thermal paste - lifespan? AM4 application

slipd · 10 May 2020 at 15:28

Hi guys,

I've recently unearthed 3/4, new and unused Arctic 5 applicators. Will it be alright do you think, it's got to be about 4-10 years old... I know paste degrades under heat doesn't it?

Are the application rules still the same; a small blob, about the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the chip - let that spread under the pressure of the heatsink etc.

Thanks.

ik9000 · 10 May 2020 at 15:35

I reckon it will be fine. I've used AS5 older than 4 years, pushing 8 years and it was ok. It only really suffers IIRC if it gets really hot, like you kept in by the oven or in direct sunlight etc. If it is still the normal consistency - not grainy, and not separated into a liquid and a thicker goop then you should be fine. You'll tell when you squirt it out and key the surface with your credit card if it's smoothing out properly. Suggest putting a small dab on a piece of plastic first to check no solid lumps in there that might damage something delicate.

ik9000 · 10 May 2020 at 15:36

what AM4 chip? The best way is two lines and a blob. Let me fish out the guidance for you

slipd · 10 May 2020 at 15:40

Thanks ik9000! It's been in the dark, in a loft/garage so I reckon it'll be okay then... funny you saying that about the separation into (off-ish yellow iirc?) liquid and the paste - I was doing a build for a friend a few years back and they had brand new stuff and it was like that. Could have been on the shelf in the shop for a while I guess?

It's only a 1200 - second build. New Evo 212 though.

ik9000 · 10 May 2020 at 16:01

ok see under the lid here and note the corner with the arrow:
https://www.guru3d.com/index.php?ct=articles&action=file&id=51536

** Do Not Hotlink images **

you want to get a line across those two core dies and the larger IO chiplet. This is the pattern I used based on a guide I found online but now can't find.
So it looks like a big line down through the N of Ryzen and a small line focussed under the Y and Z with a blob either side (references to the LID markings, not the image above).

For the avoidance of doubt you only need to put it on the lid - you do not need to de-lid the CPU. I'm just trying to show how the TIM application relates to the stuff below the lid.

ik9000 · 10 May 2020 at 16:04

slipd said:
Thanks ik9000! It's been in the dark, in a loft/garage so I reckon it'll be okay then... funny you saying that about the separation into (off-ish yellow iirc?) liquid and the paste - I was doing a build for a friend a few years back and they had brand new stuff and it was like that. Could have been on the shelf in the shop for a while I guess?

It's only a 1200 - second build. New Evo 212 though.

Sometimes it's like paint and a stir brings it back to life. Not entirely uncommon but YMMV in those situations, and it means taking the syringe apart, or mixing it in something and then trying your luck. At that point I'd weight up time spent vs cost and peace of mind

Relentless81 · 10 May 2020 at 16:11

I used some old mx4 and it's fine, it's a good few years old, I got rid of the bit sat tight at the end of the tube before applying the bit after

JTrickle · 10 May 2020 at 17:07

I only recently finished off some thermal paste from 2001. It still worked.

opethdisciple · 10 May 2020 at 18:26

I just covered the entire surface of mine with a thin layer.

random_matt · 10 May 2020 at 18:42

Just pea dot in the middle method or spread. Enough of these other garbage suggestions.

ik9000 · 10 May 2020 at 19:02

random_matt said:
Just pea dot in the middle method or spread. Enough of these other garbage suggestions.

sure if your chip is central under the lid... sometimes it pays to target the application a little better. Then you can use less paste and get it in the most effective place. Remember the days of S775 and all those generations? You had to target paste according to the cpu with lines, +, X etc and that was an intel guide IIRC...

humbug · 13 May 2020 at 14:47

Click on link for optimum thermal application.

https://imgur.com/gallery/WbZjMp1

CuriousTomCat · 13 May 2020 at 14:54

humbug said:
Click on link for optimum thermal application.

https://imgur.com/gallery/WbZjMp1

I've just saved that video for later reference. I'll use the X method from now on. Thank you for posting

humbug · 13 May 2020 at 15:00

SonicSW20 · 13 May 2020 at 15:07

humbug said:
Click on link for optimum thermal application.

https://imgur.com/gallery/WbZjMp1

This is flawed and misleading though. For one, pressure won't be close to what you get with a typical cooler, and for two they are not applying it evenly. You can see that in the first clip with how the paste spreads. The only reason there's better coverage with the X is because there's more paste.

For non conductive paste on CPU's on AM4, LGA115x/1200 with a square IHS, all that matters is you use enough paste. Too much is better than too little. For larger form factors with a rectangular IHS like Threadripper, it matters more to ensure even distribution.

humbug · 13 May 2020 at 15:39

SonicSW20 said:
This is flawed and misleading though. For one, pressure won't be close to what you get with a typical cooler, and for two they are not applying it evenly. You can see that in the first clip with how the paste spreads. The only reason there's better coverage with the X is because there's more paste.

For non conductive paste on CPU's on AM4, LGA115x/1200 with a square IHS, all that matters is you use enough paste. Too much is better than too little. For larger form factors with a rectangular IHS like Threadripper, it matters more to ensure even distribution.

I really don't care about analysing it to this extent, if it spreads better as a cross because you're putting more on then apply it in cross form, yes you could probably get the same spread if you put a bigger blob in the middle... how much more????? is this too much? is this not enough? why complicate it?

If you're teaching a noob how to do it you do that in a way that's easiest to understand, you don't make them measure stuff with their eye's if you can help it, teaching methods... eventually they will learn for themselves the technicalities of it, people are not stupid they just need straight forward guidance to get them started.

pc-guy · 19 May 2020 at 20:30

humbug said:
Click on link for optimum thermal application.

https://imgur.com/gallery/WbZjMp1

That’s decent! I still use the old method trying to spread the good stuff out by hand before putting the heatsink or waterblock on. Definitely will use x method in future. It is much less time consuming and far cleaner.

ik9000 · 19 May 2020 at 21:50

humbug said:
why complicate it?

If you're teaching a noob how to do it you do that in a way that's easiest to understand, you don't make them measure stuff with their eye's if you can help it, teaching methods... eventually they will learn for themselves the technicalities of it, people are not stupid they just need straight forward guidance to get them started.

Intel would agree with you. Gone is the old "use this shape for this processor guide." Now if you click down to their "how to apply TIM" section it just goes for the central pea-sized blob approach. https://www.intel.co.uk/content/www/uk/en/support/articles/000005576/processors.html
AMD don't say much at all, they just refer you to the TIM manufacturer's guidance.

keyser · 19 May 2020 at 22:05

A big enough drop in the middle is fine, in that video it doesn't reach because not enough, video starts too early to show this.

Panos · 19 May 2020 at 22:28

random_matt said:
Just pea dot in the middle method or spread. Enough of these other garbage suggestions.

keyser said:
A big enough drop in the middle is fine, in that video it doesn't reach because not enough, video starts too early to show this.

Is not for AMD CPUs which are off to the sides and is not good for soldered intel series either. You need full cover across the whole surface.
Center blob is good enough for TIM based Intel CPUs ONLY.

slipd said:
Hi guys,

I've recently unearthed 3/4, new and unused Arctic 5 applicators. Will it be alright do you think, it's got to be about 4-10 years old... I know paste degrades under heat doesn't it?

Are the application rules still the same; a small blob, about the size of a grain of rice in the middle of the chip - let that spread under the pressure of the heatsink etc.

Thanks.

Get a new thermal paste mate. Seriously, you buy CPU that is 100 times more expensive than the thermal paste not been able to afford a fresh paste every time you upgrade is kinda daft.