Soldato
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Upcoming games to support DirectX
- Thread starter PhysicsMan94
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Gregster can't ban I don't think.
I do find it hypocritical that some call DirectX crap (Versus Mantle it's obviously not as good, but it's not completely worse all over, but then we get to AMD CPU's versus Intel CPU's (As this is a similar situation in terms of performance), one would get flamed to call the AMD CPU's crap..................)
Obviously not everyone (Like marine says) are calling DX crap, they're just not signing it's praises, which isn't a bad thing in itself.
I do find it hypocritical that some call DirectX crap (Versus Mantle it's obviously not as good, but it's not completely worse all over, but then we get to AMD CPU's versus Intel CPU's (As this is a similar situation in terms of performance), one would get flamed to call the AMD CPU's crap..................)
Obviously not everyone (Like marine says) are calling DX crap, they're just not signing it's praises, which isn't a bad thing in itself.
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I think the reason they said that is because the OP created it as a humorous parody of the Mantle thread. But due to the posting that ensued the thread turned from a joke into useful information. Which comically is the exact opposite transition of every other GPU section thread ever made
Soldato
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Gotta admit, the evasive waffle and DX white knighting is pretty funny tbh
Gotta admit, the evasive waffle and DX white knighting is pretty funny tbh
From the outside looking in (and from somebody who isn't pinning his colours to an API) it's just another battleground for the fanboys to cross swords over. They're as bad as each other
.Upcoming games to support PhysX and Mantle threads make sense because they are not par for the course.
Gaming Evolved vs TWIMTBP, not really as its the game that counts and not what brand is stamped on it.
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What is funny though, is that since Mantle Nvidia users (not all) now can't heap enough praise upon Microsoft and DX when before Mantle they were shoulder to shoulder with ATI/AMD users in their disdain for them. DirectX is probably more popular then ever and it's all down to Mantle
In what way was it criticised?
As far as I can remember the biggest criticism DirectX ever got is that it locked gamers into Windows, which is why OpenGL was preferable. Mantle has even bigger limitations (GPU compatiblity) and it only really shows significant benefits on **** PC's anyway.
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Discussing all the great games coming out that are using DirectX of course!
Soldato
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That's just not true, at least in my case, i get on average a 20fps performance increase, better min and max fps and much improved frame times when using Mantle compared to DX11.
Not that i'm hating on DX11, it's done us right before and still does the job, i think it's a good thing that Mantle has exposed it's flaws and pushed Microsoft into hopefully releasing a much better version of DX12, at least then if Mantle dies (i don't think it will) we'll all have a great experience using DX12 with it's improvements and if it doesn't, we'll have a better, faster Api to cater for everyone.
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This is the point though, Mantle will never truly "cater for everyone" - it is a GCN specific technology, hence why it gives such large performance gains over Direct3D 11 on (the latest) AMD cards. If it was extended for use by Intel, Nvidia and AMD over multiple card generations as to give functionality for as many people as possible then it would pretty much become DirectX just with a different name and different naming conventions within the API itself.
Also, there is the issue that it is extremely unlikely that Intel/Nvidia will adopt it in any sort of meaningful way and further that AMD has also claimed that they will retain control over Mantle - hence signifying that it will never be "Open"; they'd have to relinquish control to some overall group (much like the Khronos Group for OGL) in order for it to be open.
This is a good thing because if AMD keep control then they can accelerate development and add new features to make it faster, better etc as soon as they're ready. If they handed it off to someone that process would slow right down and take...forever. Look at how slowly DX updates. DX11 has been here what, six years? It's been updated twice during that time and each update barely changed anything at all performance wise yet has taken ages to come to the party.
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If AMD keep control then there would be nothing stopping them from conveniently ignoring suggestions from Intel/Nvidia and there would even be nothing stopping them from purposely making their cards' performance much better than their competitors. The issue at play here is trust and the fact that this is business, would you trust your competitors to 'play fair' with a technology used by you all but controlled by them? I certainly wouldn't and I'd wager that Intel/Nvidia wouldn't either.
Thankfully they will have the option of using it or not. It could be worse, just imagine if Nvidia were forced to run Mantle and it was then used to judge and benchmark Nvidia cards. Imagine if Nvidia had to use one version of Mantle and AMD was able to use a completely different version that runs 7 times faster on their hardware. Does this sound familiar?
You mean like Huddy says about gameworks?, and thats some features of features not a whole API
Both mantle and DX imo have their place ,Both do reasonably well at what they do, (DX as a generic api that covers a large range and Mantle for AMD's GCN cards),Both can be improved on, eg Dx12 and Mantle 2 , I hope Nvidia tbh doesnt sit down and write another api for their own cards as no matter how you look at it coding each api must add to the costs and be passed onto us users
Aye. Another vendor specific API is the last thing PC gaming needs right now. DX 12 is coming and luckily for everyone AMD has done the leg work on an API that apparently works in a similar manner. So devs can get to grips with Mantle and then carry that knowledge over to something that'll be supported by everyone.
Despite what some here think. I'd put good money on Mantle support tanking hard once DX 12 hits seeing you can apparently have almost all the advantages and performance but with only a single code base. I'm sure there will be the odd AMD funded title, but they will be a rare breed. So I'd say right now the more devs working on mantle the better as come DX12 we will all benefit.
Despite what some here think. I'd put good money on Mantle support tanking hard once DX 12 hits seeing you can apparently have almost all the advantages and performance but with only a single code base. I'm sure there will be the odd AMD funded title, but they will be a rare breed. So I'd say right now the more devs working on mantle the better as come DX12 we will all benefit.
Soldato
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Yeah, if DX12 can do pretty much the same thing and keep it all under one roof, then all cool and it doesn't really matter if it retires Mantle.
Anyway, what's all this illegal Mantle talk eh? I should report the lot of you.
Anyway, what's all this illegal Mantle talk eh? I should report the lot of you.
I really hope DX12 is nothing like Mantle, the further away from that crap the better. Does everyone really want botched implementations, fixes, patches, excuses, games out even before the API is ready, and that's before we have to start fixing and patching games themselves.
Soldato
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It's good from an AMD point ofview that they keep control of it, but bad for Intel/Nvidia. DX11 might not have changed much, but DX in general has.
Thankfully they will have the option of using it or not. It could be worse, just imagine if Nvidia were forced to run Mantle and it was then used to judge and benchmark Nvidia cards. Imagine if Nvidia had to use one version of Mantle and AMD was able to use a completely different version that runs 7 times faster on their hardware. Does this sound familiar?
I'm guessing you mean GameWorks? Which game are you not allowed to turn the GameWorks effects off?
Surely having an entire API doing it is worse than a Libray for an API?
But you think it's good when AMD do it and bad when Nvidia do it? (If they do do it)
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As we're getting DX 12 to be the standard and market leading API that I imagine almost every game will end up using (in time), I don't think it would be THAT bad if Nvidia did produce their own API. I think we all know Nvidia wouldn't mess about pretending they want the other vendors to use it. They'd lock it down and keep it for themselves. But at least then they wouln't have to worry about supporting anything but Nvidia hardware and could really tune it for their hardware. Then the developers could choose if the supported DX12, DX12 + Mantle, DX12 + NvidiaAPI, DX12 + Mantle + NvidiaAPI or maybe even Mantle + NvidiaAPI.
Nvidia users couldn't use Mantle and so would have to use DX12 if NvidiaAPI wasn't supported.
AMD users couldn't use NvidiaAPI so would have to use DX12 if Mantle wasn't supported.
At least there would be DX12 to fall back on and hopefully it'll be decent enough, even if not as efficient as the vendor's own APIs.
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