Upgrade and new(ish) rigs

orbitalwalsh said:
As for 2600x Vs 2700x. Just get the 2700 and overclock to 4.1/2ghz manually
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I thought that the Ryzens, particularly the 2*** series, tended to do better when allowed to do their own thing with the boost rather than applying an all-core overclock? Feel sure I've read that in a few places? Although maybe the difference is just too small to matter?

4K8KW10 said:
Such a movie doesn't exist :D
When you claim such things, at least give us a link to check it out.
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orbitalwalsh said:
not so muhc wiping the floor as i Hoped, thought it would offer better performance but

9 mins in R3 1200 vs G5600 + GTX 1030 for both

[snip]

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £153.88 (includes shipping: £9.90)
​

vs

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £187.68 (includes shipping: £8.70)
​
Click to expand...

Arrgh... this decision is tough. Back to going through the permutations again!

I've seen the G5400 for under £55, which is £45 cheaper than the 2200G. And it's £55 cheaper when you factor in not needing such expensive RAM to get the most from it, which is even more than the saving shown here, and much pays for the difference between a GT1030 and a GTX1050 (yeah, I'm getting that the 1030 is not a great option).

On the other hand... the AM4 option offers slightly better CPU performance right now it seems, and will likely have a better upgrade potential for a longer time. Could even get away with using the iGPU for a few months and save up for a GTX1050(Ti) for Christmas.

On the gripping hand... upgrading the G5400 with a second-hand i5-8400 or 8700 in a year or two would surely mean the Coffeelake system would easily last for five or six years as a decent gaming set-up anyway, so is it really that much worse off in the future-proofing stakes than the AMD system?

I guess this means neither decision is a bad one, at least...
 
@strumpusplunket

sorry, added to the above thread just as you posted, might want to go back a page and have a loot. has costings of 2400G vs G5400+GTX 1050 along with performance difference

and i'm unbiased to amd or intel, I told @4K8KW10 about amd z470 platform in February along with telling him to increase his believed guess on Thread Ripper 2 core count ;)

just rather get a gtx 1050 into your kids hands whethers its intel or ryzen
 
It is the Ryzen 3 2200G wiping the floor with the poor Pentium.
It is normal that it could be found somewhere more expensive.
The Ryzen platform will be upgraded in the future to 12-core/24-thread and 16-core/32-thread processors which will dramatically wipe the floor with the poor 8700.
8700 will be a good processor for a light office work in five years.
 
@strumpusplunket

just noticed, all the videos i've linked of either 2400 or 2200g running against intel+GPU are using 16GB of ram, not 8GB

as you know APU uses system ram for VRAM hence needing the high ram speed for that as well as for the CPU core. No idea if 8GB would effect scores

its good to see competition finally, and if you like AMD for the kids PC, wait till B450 boards are released Q3

£315 for vega 2400g vs £330 G5400 + GTX 1050 is interesting :D
 
orbitalwalsh said:
@strumpusplunket

sorry, added to the above thread just as you posted, might want to go back a page and have a loot. has costings of 2400G vs G5400+GTX 1050 along with performance difference

and i'm unbiased to amd or intel, I told @4K8KW10 about amd z470 platform in February along with telling him to increase his believed guess on Thread Ripper 2 core count ;)

just rather get a gtx 1050 into your kids hands whethers its intel or ryzen
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Yeah, just now seen that. Thanks for all the links.

This AMD system will likely be for my youngest, and he's not really that keen a gamer yet. He plays Minecraft, Roblox and Lego games and would like to play Fortnite with his older brother, but I can't see him playing anything else for the next year or so, so it looks like the 2400G performance would be fine for him for a while, maybe even the 2200G (man, now there's another permutation in the mix!). Fortnite 1080p at medium settings with playable FPS is likely the most demanding thing he'll want.

There is the issue of fairness if one gets an iGPU and the other a GTX1050, I guess. Although the balancing factor would be the Ryzen system being cheaper and easier to upgrade and lasting longer. This will be like the marshmallow delayed gratification test for the Fortnite generation! :)

orbitalwalsh said:
@strumpusplunket

just noticed, all the videos i've linked of either 2400 or 2200g running against intel+GPU are using 16GB of ram, not 8GB

as you know APU uses system ram for VRAM hence needing the high ram speed for that as well as for the CPU core. No idea if 8GB would effect scores
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Ah, good point. However, just having had a Google, this article seems to suggest the difference is quite minimal.

4K8KW10 said:
It is the Ryzen 3 2200G wiping the floor with the poor Pentium.
It is normal that it could be found somewhere more expensive.
The Ryzen platform will be upgraded in the future to 12-core/24-thread and 16-core/32-thread processors which will dramatically wipe the floor with the poor 8700.
8700 will be a good processor for a light office work in five years.
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Surely that's a bit tongue-in-cheek? ;)

I mean, my current i5-2500k is almost eight years old and it was still decent enough for gaming when I was last playing things earlier this year.

I do like the look of the Ryzen platform in general, though.
 
both have pro's and cons , have a feeling intel will jump LGA socket next year when they finally get around to 10nm node .. or just remain with current socket until DDR5 .
AM4 has shelf life of 2020 but also DDR5 releases 2020 so might have the situation coming up now with x470 and z490 - could be their flagship chip is DDR5 but will have to see on that .

one down side is drivers for APU as they arent as slick as AMD have rolled out for their GPU ... intels CPU+Vega is more up to date lol , but your kids wont be jumping on latest titles for a while yet :)

https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/f...idge-apus-to-just-four-driver-updates-a-year/


DE
My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £303.43 (includes shipping: £10.50)
​

tried asking for B450 launch date but no ETA yet has been passe down - shouldnt be long.

only problem is Bios... board doesn't ship with latest you'll either have to request AMD boot kit if its a different brand, send off to Gigabyte to be flashed or pay reseller to flash board for you
 
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orbitalwalsh said:
both have pro's and cons , have a feeling intel will jump LGA socket next year when they finally get around to 10nm node .. or just remain with current socket until DDR5 .
AM4 has shelf life of 2020 but also DDR5 releases 2020 so might have the situation coming up now with x470 and z490 - could be their flagship chip is DDR5 but will have to see on that .

one down side is drivers for APU as they arent as slick as AMD have rolled out for their GPU ... intels CPU+Vega is more up to date lol , but your kids wont be jumping on latest titles for a while yet :)

https://www.kitguru.net/tech-news/f...idge-apus-to-just-four-driver-updates-a-year/
...
only problem is Bios... board doesn't ship with latest you'll either have to request AMD boot kit if its a different brand, send off to Gigabyte to be flashed or pay reseller to flash board for you
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Yeah, I think I've come back to preferring AMD for this build again! Though now Raven Ridge rather than Bristol Ridge, and that selection looks a pretty good option, cheers!

This has been quite a ride :)

I take it the BIOS is a Raven Ridge specific issue? So if I'm getting a 2600 or 2700 for myself anyway, I could just drop that in to the B350 board to do a BIOS flash and then pop the APU in there?

I'm feeling quite excited about this. Now the issue of where on Earth in their cluttered bedrooms they're going to fit a PC each is going to be another headache to deal with...
 
strumpusplunket said:
Yeah, I think I've come back to preferring AMD for this build again! Though now Raven Ridge rather than Bristol Ridge, and that selection looks a pretty good option, cheers!

This has been quite a ride :)

I take it the BIOS is a Raven Ridge specific issue? So if I'm getting a 2600 or 2700 for myself anyway, I could just drop that in to the B350 board to do a BIOS flash and then pop the APU in there?

I'm feeling quite excited about this. Now the issue of where on Earth in their cluttered bedrooms they're going to fit a PC each is going to be another headache to deal with...
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no, those CPUs were released after APUs , so this is the only issue with using latest CPU generations on older Gen boards, even Intel has the same problem . Aorus X470 and B450 and removeale BIOS chips but older x370/b350 dont .
Hopefully theres a sticker on the box saying APU ready or Ryzen 2000 and you know it'll be fine .

I Gigabyte have or were sending support staff to OCUK to flash a specific board model , unsure if they went and did the rest though ..

another solution for Space is ITX ?

are you now intending to set both kids up with Ryzen APU set up? might be able to sell your current core system for funds ... you've got access to MM as well
 
strumpusplunket said:
Surely that's a bit tongue-in-cheek? ;)

I mean, my current i5-2500k is almost eight years old and it was still decent enough for gaming when I was last playing things earlier this year.

I do like the look of the Ryzen platform in general, though.
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When there was no competition and Intel didn't move from the legacy quad core for a decade?!
Sure. Right now, AMD is pushing extremely hard with the cores count and a 32-core/64-thread CPU system will be quite common upper mainstream next year.
 
orbitalwalsh said:
no, those CPUs were released after APUs , so this is the only issue with using latest CPU generations on older Gen boards, even Intel has the same problem . Aorus X470 and B450 and removeale BIOS chips but older x370/b350 dont .
Hopefully theres a sticker on the box saying APU ready or Ryzen 2000 and you know it'll be fine .

I Gigabyte have or were sending support staff to OCUK to flash a specific board model , unsure if they went and did the rest though ..

another solution for Space is ITX ?

are you now intending to set both kids up with Ryzen APU set up? might be able to sell your current core system for funds ... you've got access to MM as well
Click to expand...

Hmm. Yeah, that sounds a faff. I guess I could ask OcUK CS before buying.

As for ITX vs mATX - I have one mATX HTPC case I'm intending to reuse since it's perfectly servicable and it makes sense to keep costs down.

But the option of selling my current system to fund a second Raven Ridge build I'd not considered. I've used the MM a fair bit in the past, but I guess I'd assumed that it wouldn't be worth much.

Any ideas what you think I could get for it (I'd be keeping the GPU and drives)? Would it be more econimical to keep the case (and PSU?) and sell the innards?

4K8KW10 said:
When there was no competition and Intel didn't move from the legacy quad core for a decade?!
Sure. Right now, AMD is pushing extremely hard with the cores count and a 32-core/64-thread CPU system will be quite common upper mainstream next year.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is true. But is software really going to demand that much more? Games won't move that far ahead of console capability I wouldn't have thought, and there's always a lag in take-up feeding through to developers making use of hardware. Just seems hard to credit a 6-core HT CPU at 5GHz+ becoming obsolete so quickly.

(This is likely a moot point anyway, and I think I'm settled on going with Raven Ridge now... :) )
 
4K8KW10 said:
When there was no competition and Intel didn't move from the legacy quad core for a decade?!
Sure. Right now, AMD is pushing extremely hard with the cores count and a 32-core/64-thread CPU system will be quite common upper mainstream next year.
Click to expand...

not really, costs of boards are expensive and VRM counts needed and the cooling for it increases and the the TDP.. ouch
no average gamer is going to buy a £1400 CPU and £420 board along with a 850w + £120 PSU

and then theres the key factor effecting anything with cores and threads... coders/developers ! so far the best game taking advantage if cores/threads is Lost Planet 2/3 from 2013... :(
even now they cant be bothered to do multi GPU set ups on DX12/vulkan because they have to do the work and no longer AMD/Nvidia, not worth he costs unless AMD slaps money into it, which seems they are doing but more for Vega. Hopefully they back studio's to code for more threads :D

@strumpusplunket just a balancing act of keep both kids equal or near enough .

if your passing down i5 2500k to one with gtx 1050 it'll beat ryzen 2400g , would be great for older son but would he get jealous of sibling having the new system even though his is more powerful etc

multiple ways of doing things, just figuring out the best ... least you can order yours and put them on good behavior hahaha

dear i say grab them a switch each haha
 
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orbitalwalsh said:
@strumpusplunket just a balancing act of keep both kids equal or near enough .

if your passing down i5 2500k to one with gtx 1050 it'll beat ryzen 2400g , would be great for older son but would he get jealous of sibling having the new system even though his is more powerful etc

multiple ways of doing things, just figuring out the best ... least you can order yours and put them on good behavior hahaha

dear i say grab them a switch each haha
Click to expand...

Yeah, it would kick the headache of how to upgrade the 2500k system further down the road. Looking on the MM, I guess I could get £120-130 for this CPU, cooler, RAM and mobo. So that's about £150 net to move to a 2400G system.

So, quick-and-dirty calculation is that this would work out about even. So it might be a better option in fact. Certainly more equal, and whichever child wanted could ask for a 1050Ti for Xmas.

(I was already considering upgrading our family WiiU to a Switch for Xmas in addition to all this, btw :) )
 
All this talk of new parts, but tbh, the best bang for buck would be to get a second hand dell workstation with an i7/i5 and bung in a 1050/ti.
 
tamzzy said:
All this talk of new parts, but tbh, the best bang for buck would be to get a second hand dell workstation with an i7/i5 and bung in a 1050/ti.
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I'm not sure that's true. Given that I just need CPU, RAM, SSD and motherboard for each system right now due to the cases and PSU I already have, the total outlay is around £335 per system for a Ryzen 2400G PC. I haven't been able to find a refurbished system that would work out cheaper when adding a 1050 to it (let alone a 1050Ti).

True, an i5/i7 system plus 1050 would outperform what I'm building right now, but I don't really need that extra performance at the moment and it would lack the decent upgrade potential you get from the options on the AM4 platform.

tamzzy said:
Or get this: https://forums.overclockers.co.uk/threads/i7-2600k-asus-microatx-16gb-ddr3-1600-cooler.18823356/
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That does look like it would be cheaper at first glance, but adding a 1050 and an SSD would bring the cost to around £320. However, I'd need a new cooler as well as that one wouldn't in my HTPC case as it is, so that's another £25 or so at least, so it would end up costing me more. Yes, it again would have better short-term performance, but on a long-expired socket with no upgrade potential.

The attraction of the 2400G build is that is offers acceptable performance for what I need right now and has the potential to have a new dGPU and CPU dropped in over the next year or two for a cheap upgrade.
 
tamz does put a good point across , if your after a cheap system to game , dell units are £200-50 and then £119 for gtx 1050/£159 for gtx 1050ti .. oud have to go to the Bay for them .

as with everything second hand , warranty and how long it will last - most of slim factor which is a bit of a pain - havent looked at my Dell in work to see if uses standard ATX mounting points .
Going new is always more expensive and tend to get less power, but warranty and in theory would last longer

Best bet currently, Update your rig - but looking at the time, prices listed beforehand may and changed with deals and see how B450 rolls out , may lower prices of B350 boards or being priced cheap enough to offer better longer term value - Aorus/Strix B450 is something like 8+ VRM set up which beats most X370 ...

either way kids should have fun, if its new parts, get them to build it to! son is almost 3 and knows were components go , also likes to sit on motherboards for some reason though..
 
orbitalwalsh said:
tamz does put a good point across , if your after a cheap system to game , dell units are £200-50 and then £119 for gtx 1050/£159 for gtx 1050ti .. oud have to go to the Bay for them .

as with everything second hand , warranty and how long it will last - most of slim factor which is a bit of a pain - havent looked at my Dell in work to see if uses standard ATX mounting points .
Going new is always more expensive and tend to get less power, but warranty and in theory would last longer

Best bet currently, Update your rig - but looking at the time, prices listed beforehand may and changed with deals and see how B450 rolls out , may lower prices of B350 boards or being priced cheap enough to offer better longer term value - Aorus/Strix B450 is something like 8+ VRM set up which beats most X370 ...

either way kids should have fun, if its new parts, get them to build it to! son is almost 3 and knows were components go , also likes to sit on motherboards for some reason though..
Click to expand...

Yeah, tbh if I didn't have two cases and PSUs going spare it's something I'd definitely be considering for band-for-buck. Having those parts, though makes the price of what I need fairly comparable with refurb+GPU - and then the attraction of the newer platform wins out.

Ideally, I'd like these systems to take the boys through the next five years or more as their gaming tastes develop, and I can see the AM4 systems doing that quite well (add dGPU in 6-12 months, drop in Ryzen+/Ryzen 2 in a couple of years, extra RAM if/when required...). Smaller ocassional outlays seem easier and more manageable than facing having to sell and replace the whole system in another couple of years.

It would be good to get the kids involved in the build. They haven't picked up my interest in computing really. They just want things to work. At their age I was learning BASIC, writing simple games, POKE-ing programs, changing my Spectrum keyboard. My kids just play games, watch Youtube and come and pester Dad for tech support :/
 
could take the bullet and be best dad ever...

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £495.65 (includes shipping: £11.70)
​

none of this touching the cpu upgrade, GPU depending on their needs

just need an ATX case and then using your current one, or pick up two Glass cases for £35 each

wait till end of Q3 for yourself to see how z490 rolls out and z390
 
orbitalwalsh said:
could take the bullet and be best dad ever...

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £495.65 (includes shipping: £11.70)
​

none of this touching the cpu upgrade, GPU depending on their needs

just need an ATX case and then using your current one, or pick up two Glass cases for £35 each

wait till end of Q3 for yourself to see how z490 rolls out and z390
Click to expand...

Yeah... that's a nice thought. ;)

(Hasn't z490 been shelved, btw?)
 
strumpusplunket said:
Yeah... that's a nice thought. ;)

(Hasn't z490 been shelved, btw?)
Click to expand...

just had a look at ******* , still penned in , Q4 - to be fair it is needed to compete against z370/390 for NVMe drives as most m.2 Scond slot uses half the 3/4 the full data speed possible unless owners dip into second GPU slot with pcie card.
oh.. just noticed date for TR2 :D

ah... End of July for B450, i mean right at the end.... Tuesday
 
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