Upgrade for 4930k 64GB ddr3 and rx580?

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

Meddling-Monk

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So, due to circumstance (motherboard died), it appears I am now in the market to look for a new system. I've been out of the loop with regards to what systems are what and what technologies are currently in a state of change. So would like some advice and/or recommendations on that front if possible.

System will be used for a variety of purposes but primarily gaming these days. Looking to play something like Bladurs Gate 3 at ultra 1440 or 4k (60fps if not higher). On that front I'm guessing that I'm looking at a RTX3070/RX6700 for 1440 or RTX3080/RX6800 for 4K, is that about right? (For refrerence, the dead setup gives around 25-60fps on Ultra 1440) I'm aware that new GPUs are just around the corner so may hold off a tiny moment before progressing on the GPU front. Although the talk that the next gen GPUs sucking more power (more heat generated too I guess?) is not something I'm too keen on, especially since talk has them higher than this gen of cards. Any general thoughts on the GPU front? I'm of the idea that GPU memory capacity is of a fair import a while back, hence the existing 8GB RX580 and preference of the AMD cards with more GPU mem, however if the GPU will be replaced in around 3-6 years anyway for gaming upgrades (and likely have greater capacity at that point), would that even be an issue? (Hence why I'm not overlooking NVidia GPUs either)

I've also just read that AMD are about to (press?) release their next CPU products that'll also be DDR5 updated. So on this front, can I also assume that unless an Intel system is immediately necessary, it would be better to hold out a bit longer to see how those releases go? With regards to capacity of RAM, I'd likely be aiming for capacity over speed (to match dead system as I also do stuff that eats RAM fast, or I use RAMDisks so need the room), unless if anyone has any specific reasons why I should aim for a higher speed memory kit setup given the range of high capacity and speed of RAM (DDR4 or 5) available from OCUK? I think I remember reading that certain AMD system overclocks preferred certain minimum speed memory? Is that right? And would any of the 64GB kit speeds be fine for those? Although, I'm generally not going to attempt any serious overclocks on anything; may attempt undervolts, but that's about it.

I think there's also talk about Resizeable Bar, Direct Storage, etc that can impact on games? What's the word on those? If what I'm reading is right, the Resizeable Bar requires certain (generational) setups only? Whilst Direct Storge is about grabbing some (Gen3/4?) NVMEs? Is there any further info I should be concerned with on that front for those two? And is there anything else that's a recent development that I should take into consideration?

So, in short, need CPU, motherboard, GPU, RAM recommendation.

Budget, lets assume for now £1k to £2k, although technically feasible to extend further, would prefer not too unless necessary (but would like to see any suggestions in case it's feasible and suitable). Not looking to upgrade the system for a while, hence the ability to increase budget if needed (much like the old dead setup, it was around £2k back in 2012/2013 and lasted until the motherboard died just yesterday).

Thanks.
 
You got a good life out of that system but all good things come to an end. Are you going to reuse case or some other things? Cases have changed a lot over 10 years but still ATX standard. I would recommend a new PSU, yours may still be good but it is old and you do not want to risk your expensive new tech.

You are thinking about most of the relevant things and if you can wait for the AM5 release in mid Sept then I suggest you do so. It may be amazing or not but it is always good to have choices. You can build a truely excellent PC within your budget with currently available components so nothing to worry about. This is especially true if you are willing to keep using the RX 580 until new gpus are released.

In general if you were buying now them you could go for 12700k + z690 mobo with DDR4, no real need for DDR5 unless you like to look at big numbers on benchmarks, and still have change form £1k if you keep the 580 for a bit. AM5 and Raptorlake releases soon.

Resize Bar and Direct Storage , do not worry about at moment. The new Mobo will have it and if you get a Gen 3/4 PCIe SSD you will be ready for direct storage, with your budget you can get a super fast Gen 4 drive as OS drive then as much as you need for general storage. The RX 580 will not be able to utilize rebar but its not a big deal and that feature will be there and available for when you get a new GPU.

PSU and new gen gpu power useage. PSUs are currently changing over to a new spec so not a perfect time to buy but adapters will be available so anything you buy now will still work with more newer connectors. There have been concerning rumours about next gen gpu power useage but will have to wait for real numbers before we lose out minds. More power used absolutely will mean more heat generated and if you have not seen a high end GPU from this current generation then you will be shocked at how huge they are now. I changed from a 1080 to a RX 6800 and i was shocked at the size increase. The next gen could be a step up again but we will have to wait and see.

DDR. If you go for an AM4 Ryzen system then you are best getting 3600mhz Ryzen approved ram , it helps to match the infinity fabric speeds and will be less troublesome in the long run. Always best to check the QVL list for whatever mobo you go for anyway. Intel is less fussy with ram and any 3200mhz DDR4 is normally OK. If you went for Alderlake and DDR5 then best to stick to 2 sticks if you want insane 5600+ mhz, are problems with 4 sticks and high speeds. AM5 will be using DDR5 so if you wait to see what AM5 is like you will have more info on what is best for that platform.
 
Tbh I’d try and pick up a cheap replacement motherboard either on the MM here or eBay and hold fire for a few months. Both new CPU’s and GPU’s are due before the end of the year or early next year.
 
@Haz123

The case is available for use, but I think I'll be grabbing a new one for the new system. The reason is because this is the old Corsair Obsidian 650D. It has badly designed airflow through badly placed internal layout and positioning of fan spots. If it wasn't EATX compatible, I wouldn't have even got i back in 2012, as the motherboard; Asus Rampage IV Extreme, would not fit into other cases as easily otherwise. Whilst I've modded it over the years to improve the airflow; by removing the grilles and the internal cages that obstructed the airflow and created a racket, it's not really suited for a setup that's going to generate more heat than the dead system, which is looking more likely to be the case as tech is released. So yeah, a case is likely to be needed.

PSU I may not need to grab a new one just yet, although if the power requirements increase, I obviously will need to. Have a Seasonic Prime TX700 (The fanless one) that was obtained not long ago. So if the power budget remains within the threshold of this PSU, I can probably not need to purchase a new PSU. Incidentally, any case recommendations would help if anyone knows of bottom (without a shroud) or side mounted positions in the cases for PSU to fit this PSU. But will also obviously accept suggestions for other designs as I may need to change PSU anyway.

Thanks for information and suggestions so far. Will put down the 12700k + Z690 as the baseline suggestion to work off of for a build.

And @MissChief

I do actually have another system, a Z77 3570(nonk) that I'm currently using as a replacement (and which I have canabalised parts from the dead system and transferred over; 32GB RAM, RX580 and storage was transferred over), so I can bide a bit of time for the meanwhile and see as things are released (without needing to grab a board that is going to be ~10 years old and could die like mine), although I'm also hesitant to tempt fate and see prices rise again when the new stuff is released. Especially the GPU which would be the biggest burner of the budget. I suppose I'll make the call on the GPU once I get more idea of the other parts locked down as we approach the new releases, although I'm hoping I can wait until and reuse the RX580 as both you and Haz123 suggested until then.
 
Yeah your psu will be fine for as long as you keep the 580. I am guessing you wanted a near silent PC if you splashed the cash on that psu.

If you did want to go for a 12700k then a decent 240 or 360 aio is an option , the best tower coolers can cool them but they are huge and almost as expensive. Arctic Freezer II are very good and not that expensive , rgb and non rgb varients are available.

Edit - I will have a think about the case. My choices i put in before the edit all have shrouds and not good for that psu.
 
Sometime around Black Friday or new year '23 may be the best time current-gen stuff for discounts, but that's just me guessing with the release schedules, like sometimes all the old stock just dries up as they cease production. Now certainly isn't a terrible time, providing you buy the right things, but with the rumours about the performance of next-gen graphics cards I certainly would not dump £1000+ on a 3080/3090 class card. Your estimates for 1440/4K are what the manufacturers themselves say is appropriate, but on some games you'll do fine with less.

Rebar is only really required for Intel (graphics cards), at the moment. Don't know of any games that use DirectStorage, but current gen console ports might start to use it.
 
OK, so with Intel 13th Gen out now, and only the AMD 7000 series GPU to arrive, I think it's time to start to cobble together the specs for the final system. But I'd like to run this by everyone to see if I'm missing something totally obvious to you guys first (as again, I've been out of loop for a while now) in hopes that someone might catch any mistake for me before I make a grave mistake or something I can't easily go back on. :)

Two systems are currently in consideration:

---

System 1:
CPU: Intel i5 13600k (in lieu of the i7 12700k)
RAM: DDR4 128GB (no particular brand at moment, just anything to reach max capacity for use)
Motherboard: Asus TUF-Gaming Z690 plus D4

Price from ocuk:
£379.99 (CPU) + £479.99 (DDR4) + £267.95 (Mobo)
Total of £1127.93

---

System 2:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 9 7900x
RAM: DDR5 64GB RAM
Motherboard: Asus TUF-Gaming X670E Plus

Price from ocuk:
£578.99 (CPU) + £329.99 (or more for DDR5 sets) + £329.99 (Mobo)
Total of £1238.97

---

System 1 is cheaper and has maxed memory (double of System 2), but leans more onto Intel's e cores to make up the difference compared to the (more) full fat CPU cores on System 2, which I believe is a net loss as the RAM difference shouldn't be that noticeable compared to the CPU themselves. I also have no experiencing undervolting the big/little architecture Intel uses compared to a CPU that has identical cores to reduce voltage and temps produced like that Ryzen 9 7900x. So given that, and the not exactly a major price difference beteen the systems, I'm hesitant to go with Intel given the only main advantage is the maximised memory (double). And the only reason I might want that, is if during my steps into the AI/Deep Learning territory I want to have a go at some Deep Fakes, as the the many writes and edits made would be excellent on the RAM Drive vs the SSDs.

So for now, I'm leaning more towards System 2.

With regards to possible alternative options to System 2, I did look at the 7600x and 7700x for the CPU instead, but the pricing of the 7600x is already at £319.99 at ocuk for 6 cores. The 7700x, having 2 more cores and 4 more thread capability (+50% more) effectively, costs another £100 on top, taking it to £419.99. Which isn't bad. Until I looked at the 7900x, at £578.99, which doubles the amount of cores/threads over the 7600x for just another £259 more from the 7600x or another £159 more from the 7700x (again another 50% boost). If this was to be upgraded in 2-4 years time, this would be a silly choice, but given I'm expecting it to pull duty for the next 10 years or more, would going with more cores for £259 more on the CPU be a bad idea? The 4930k I had survived through the core increases from 2 and 4 that was more common then to the 6 and 8 of more recent times, so my feeling that an 8 core like the 7700x would be fine for the next few years at the very least (as that appears to be where we are generally), but may potentially experience earlier difficulties compared to jumping to the 7900x that more cores available if software starts to use more cores coming down the line as tech drives the core count up ever more. Does anyone feel the logic of that is out of whack? Or roughly on track with how things have played?

As for RAM, the backup system I'm using now is 32GB RAM (after I migrated the dead systems RAM over), it's fine for use, but once I kick up the RAM Drive, system smoothness is still OK (at 16GB available) but the RAM Drive is a bit too tight a squeeze with certain stuff I do (at 16GB in size), and so I think I will need to head back to at least 64GB RAM so I can make a 32GB RAM Drive for something like AI/Deep Learning to use as a scratch disk or when I myself edit videos or images whilst leaving 32GB for memory for everything else. Going 128GB DDR5 seems to be a bad choice due to newness of DDR5 and the pricing of the matched kits right now. With 64GB pair already being £329.99 (cheapest on ocuk rightnow). If I do need more later on, DDR5 production should be running still and the higher capacities and kits should be more readily available (and hopefully at a cheaper price), so I think 64GB DDR5 is the goal here for System 2. For System 1, as the price for max memory (128GB) is at £479.99, and DDR4 may not get further major improvements and if I need to add more a few years down the line, may not be as easily available (especially in a 4x32GB matched kit pack), grabbing that in one go seems to be the right choice.

The motherboard choices are fairly generic; PCIe5 x16 slot, Gen5 m.2 slots (if available), some Gen4 slots and rest Gen3 slots. I was considering at one point the Asus Pro-Art Creator with WIFI for System 2, but that motherboard needed another £200+ more and the only major improvement I could see over the TUF-Gaming, was another PCIe5 x16 slot (that downgrades to x8/x8 with the first slot so not full slots really), USB4 (that's constantly changing and updating still so the ones onboard won't update and you'll need to buy a new card anyway at some point if you want them) and 10gbe nic which I can purhcase for ~£100 anyway if I really needed it or use a USB to Ethernet for a 5gbe connection (which is faster than my existing home network and devices anyway). So I think the middle of the road motherboard was the best option here.

Anyone notice anything obviously wrong with my logic and choices here?
 
Meddling-Monk said:
I also have no experiencing undervolting the big/little architecture Intel uses compared to a CPU that has identical cores to reduce voltage and temps produced like that Ryzen 9 7900x.
Click to expand...


The big/little cores have a single linked voltage and you cannot independently adjust one voltage without the other. You can disable the little cores in the bios. Simple to adjust voltages with Intel XTU.

If you are going to be doing a lot of full core loads then I would get the 7900x , much more reasonable power draw once all cores are maxed out. If you need single thread performance then go for Intel 13th gen. I have no real experience with the type of things you are doing but for gaming they will be close and over 200fps in almost all games, if you had a gpu capable of rendering that many frames.
 
The 13600K is a really strong CPU and doesn't have the multi-threading weakness in productivity that the 12600K had, but at stock settings the 5900X and 5950X are still really hard to beat, especially in efficiency and ease of cooling, with long-term loads.

The 13600K gives you strong gaming performance, that's the main advantage (versus previous gen CPUs: Zen 3 and Alder Lake), but only the 7900X can consistently beat it in productivity.

It seems like you're asking the question of whether ease of use (with having more memory) is more important than a little more performance, so I guess I'd ask how often you're waiting around for things to complete. If the answer is "not much", then I'd get the 13600K with 128GB.

^^ This is at stock settings.
 
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