Upgrade Help Mobo Bundle or GPU

[Twoflower]

Hi to all Overclockers.

I seem to have spent a few days and a lot of hours searching for this answer but there is a wealth of info out there and I am behind the times somewhat now with PCs.

My current system is as follows:

GA-X58a-UDR3 mobo
Core i7 960 (no OC)
2 x GTX 660 TI in SLI (1 x EVGA, 1 x Gigabyte)
8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600 CL9 (Kingston Blu)
Standard HDs, no SSDs
775W Toughpower XT PSU


I have approx £450 for an upgrade but cannot decide on which way to go. This would be for a predominantly gaming setup. I do use my PC for Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Illustrator type stuff but am more focused on the gaming element.

a) Just replace the 2 GTX 660 TIs with one GTX 980 TI

b) Keep the GPUs and upgrade my mobo, CPU and RAM

The ability to OC is also confusing me slightly. I seem to read that the Intel CPUs need the K suffix for this but also read if not overclocking these are too pricey?

Obviously choice 'a' does not require much help, it's a simple swap and I am assuming the i7 960 won't bottleneck the 980 Ti?

Choice 'b' is more complicated as I do not have a good enough understanding of current CPUs. But am sure for around my budget there should be a more future proof upgrade and I'll worry about the GPU at a later date. Im thinking that an ASUS mobo, i5 6600K Skylake and 16GB RAM should be in budget then pop the 2 660s back in the setup.

So basically would like to know anyone's thoughts on which way round to upgrade?

Thanks guys.

Jas.

 

[Twoflower]

Thanks for the response. Sorry, should have stated. I only have a 1920x1080 setup at the mo.

 

[Twoflower]

Well its definitely on my to-do but this effects load times yes? So a mobo that has the slot for it is great but thats a future concern.

Very interested in which would be the better upgrade route.

 

[Twoflower]

Ok, so you recommend this route over simply replacing the GPU for now?

Definitely difficult to decide. The 980 Ti would give a big boost to gaming. But the other route brings me more up to date with the rig itself.

Thanks for your input. Some more head scratching to do.

 

[Twoflower]

Well Cern, thanks very much. And to Ryan0r too for your input. Really helpful.

I'm going to go the mobo, ssd, i5 upgrade route.

Now pulling my hair out over which ones. i5 6600K is a given. SSD I can source easily. 2x8GB DDR4 is a minefield. Unsure of what speed to go for. And just when I thought I saw a nice z170 from Gigabyte I find the Maximus VIII Hero. I expect it will be a small amount of compromise until all parts fit the budget.

Thanks All.

 

[Twoflower]

Ok, so getting quite excited now. Couple more questions if you have some more patience...

Sandisk 240GB SSD Plus SATA 6GB/s comes in at 54 pounds, any good?

Any advantage of Asus Z170 Pro Gaming over MSI Z170A Pro Gaming? Only ask as theres a nice bundle for the 6600K and MSI here on Overclockers.

Otherwise will use the Arctic Freezer 7 Pro Rev 2 CPU Cooler for cooling. And go for HyperX Fury DDR4 2x8GB 2400.

If the MSI is a good board and with the bundle deal I can bring it all in for exactly 450.

 

[Twoflower]

Ok, well thanks time again. Really grateful for the help. Found a bundle here which is pre-oc'd. All in with delivery 465. Includes:

Gigabyte GA-Z170XP-SLI
i5 6600K
Team Group Elite DDR4 2400 2x8GB
Alpenföhn Brocken 2 CPU Cooler

I will just have to wait a couple of weeks and then I'll grab the Samsung 250GB 850 Evo. I do like the sound of the Magician software.

Will be purchasing this on Monday I think so if there are any problems or reasons not to go for the above then let me know, it will be appreciated.

Thanks again.

Jas.

 

[Twoflower]

Is an i5 really much of an upgrade, yes the cores will be faster but you lose out on hyper threading. If you're going to go for a new cpu id stay with an i7. If I were you I'd be overclocking your current cpu and then look in to an ssd and a new gpu.

If you are on the x58 platform you could even pick up a cheap 6 core Xeon processor if your motherboards bios supports it.

Oh me oh my. I had no idea about the hyper threading. Simpleton that I am, I've been popping the CPUs into cpuboss and seeing the ratings. Came away with the conclusion that any 6th Gen i5 would far outstrip my 1st Gen 960 for gaming.

All started when I found a 980 Ti new for 436 quid, albeit a Galax branded card.

Overclocking my current 960 would still require a cooling upgrade? Current fan came with the CPU. In truth a good clean and re-paste would not go amiss anyway.

Food for thought. I could do the cooling upgrade and the 980 Ti for around the same cost with the SSD to follow. But then will the prices for GPUs change much once the latest Pascal comes out?

Sleep on it so I will.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Twoflower]

The i7 960 is a 1366 socket isn't it? I would have a look in the CPU section, many people in there have been dropping ex-server 6 core xeons into their X58 boards.

In your budget I would look for a 6 core xeon, grab an SSD and keep the rest of my money for AMDs polaris cards or Nvidias Pascal cards.

Just had a quick look into this. It seems about the best Xeon is the x5690 for x58. They seem to work fine and give performance close to 4xxxK (didnt note down the exact CPU). Auction on eBay for this is already at 170. Step down to the x6570 and looking at around 85 quid.

I just don't know. Quite torn between a very upgradable upgrade (so to speak) and squeezing what I can out of the current system. If I upgrade to Z170 and i5 then in the future it will still be very upgradable, no? Also, my wait for Polaris or Pascal is simply hoping the current cards come down in price rather than getting the new ones.

On balance I think the Xeon, although a good upgrade, will just cost money and fairly soon I'll want to change again. Maybe... arghh.

Lots of different opinions here which is great. I'll keep researching and giving it more thought.

Thanks.

 

[Twoflower]

Sleep on it sounds a good plan.

Personally I still think you should just add a SSD before doing anything else and see what sort of a boost that gives your current system. Then take things from there. The SSD would still be an essential part of any system should you choose a fuller upgrade later.

The 6600k will give you a only marginal boost over your i7-960 in current game titles and the lack of hyperthreading is something to consider.

I don't think jumping for a 980Ti makes much sense with new offerings soon to come from AMD and Nvidia. Prices of the current GPUs won't change that much (unless the Pound takes a total hammering in the months to come) but you'll likely get more bang for your buck if you wait. Two GTX 660s in SLI isn't that shabby.

Its clear to me that an SSD is a must. Never really thought about it as load times dont bother me in the slightest. But seems everyone is raving about them and there has to be good reason for that. In game, the SSD will not make Lara Crofts hair look any nicer though.

And yep, 2 660 Tis are pretty good. Still don't have Lara's hair the way I want but they are very capable cards.

I think waiting for price drops (possibly) on GPUs is the best idea so far. Still undecided about upgrades. Knowing now the i5 6600K wont be much of an improvement (which was a shock to me) I'm no closer to a decision. Perhaps a Z170 with i7 bundle but have a feeling that will be out of budget for now.

 

[Twoflower]

The problem with Z170 is that there's not much of an upgrade path in the future. If you get an i5-6600k then the i7-6700k is an upgrade option later, but probably not significant enough to warrant the swapout cost (if you think you'll want the 6700k go straight to it now).

Further down the road Z170 options are relatively limited as Skylake-E will use a new chipset and motherboard. Which leaves Kaby Lake, the Skylake refresh. Not much is known about that, but it's probably only incremental upgrades and likely still only quad core. So any significant upgrade from any Z170 system will need a mobo swap.

Btw, SSD is about more than load times. It gets rids of all that system chuntering from the HDD constantly being accessed by Windows for various background tasks, indexing, caching, delayed events etc. All this still goes on of course, but is far less noticeable with a SSD because it happens so much faster so you almost never see the dreaded spinning circle.

As for Lara's hair, she probably dyes it by now anyway (crazy to think it's 20 years since the original Tomb Raider).

Crazy, humbling and slightly worrying that it's 20 years since Lara graced my TV (was my TV then with the PS). She has aged better than me.

I realise the only optional upgrade CPU wise would be the i7. I suppose I was thinking of all the extra RAM and updated GPUs. My current board is 2.0 for PCI. But I do hear what you're saying. But X99 bundles are out of my price range unfortunately. Is X99 more future proof? Showing my ignorance again. The £450 I have today may not be there tomorrow and its burning a hole.

I suppose the best way to view it is, I have the 450 now, if you knew you were going to spend 450 today, given my current setup, knowing it would be at least a year before any extra spend, what would you do. I fear that holding on to the 450 is not in my specifications. I'm almost coming back to overclocking my 960, a decent cooling fan and the 980 Ti. Instant gain.

(Oh, and of course, the SSD)

 

[Twoflower]

X99 is more future proof, but at a cost. There's an interesting thread here about the relative merits and future of Z170 and X99 for gaming.

If I had £450 burning a hole in my pocket and your current system I wouldn't buy a 980 Ti because it's total overkill for 1080p gaming. So unless you plan to buy a 1440p or 4k monitor anytime soon, save your money. Besides where are you finding a 980 Ti for £450, cheapest on here or elsewhere is £499.

I'd likely buy a 500GB SSD (because 250GB fills up quickly), another 8GB of DDR3 (to get up to 16GB), a decent cooler (for OC'ing). Then I'd look at the benchmarks for the GTX 970 compared to dual GTX660 Ti and see if that card made any sense as an upgrade. If the 660 SLI setup is as good as a 970 at 1080p then I'd spend the money on something else I really wanted non computer because I really don't see the 980 Ti giving you anything that a 970 can't at 1080p.

Ok, well found a 980 Ti from Play-Asia website. With delivery is £443. However, this is something called the GALAX GTX 980 TI. I have never come across GALAX before but a GS revealed it to be the same chips etc. I will admit a small amount of trepidation here. With regard to 1080 gaming, and I admit Im using Rise of the TR for this, I have to play on medium settings with my SLI setup. Couldn't help feeling this would be improved by the 980 Ti.

The 970 as it happens is on a par with the SLI 660 Ti's. As I read the forums anyway. 970 is about as powerful as a 780 (curious) which is the same as the 660 Ti SLI. Although the 970 has some benefits technologically. But bench-marking them with FutureMark gives similar results. The 980 standard (only 4GB) still gives much better results against the SLI 660's (and the 970) so assumed (I know, I know) that the all hallowed 'TI' would be even better. Its 6GB and DX12 as opposed to 4GB and DX11 for the 980.

Basically, visually and FPS wise at more ultra settings, the single 980 Ti would really be an improvement (anything over medium on my SLI setup and its unplayable, even after tweaking the Geforce profiles to make the game use SLI better). Not to mention lower wattage and noise (considerably). Or rather I could have the same 60 fps as I have now on medium settings, but on high settings graphically.

As for memory, the board I have has 6 slots, max 4gb per slot. So I tried finding 1 more 4GB to go to 12GB to get triple channel. Difficult and the very slim possibility they wont work together. Other option is buying a new 12GB/24GB kit.

The idea of spending on non-IT related items has crossed my mind. But the child in me (who rules the roost much of the time) keeps niggling.

I seem to be going in circles here, although its been educational and fun to do so. I'll just keep mulling it over. Genuinely do thank you for all the advice though. I've never read through so many forums and opinions before. Love it.

Whatever I end up with I will certainly be posting before and after benchmarks for any would be reader.

 

[Twoflower]

Just wanted to follow up this discussion on the off chance its helpful to someone...

Scraped a little more together and finally went for the GTX 980 Ti option. Managed to find a new 980 Ti for 480. It's the Gainwood Phoenix GS version. Also went for a Hyper TX3 air cooler and a 128GB SSD (which has not arrived yet).

Couldn't be happier with the results. I benched my system using 3DMark and Firestrike test monitoring temps with RealTemp. Results are:

As system was:
Low 42 41 42 40
Hi 92 91 88 88
3DMark score: 5441

After new TX3:
Low 37 37 37 35
Hi 70 70 67 68
3DMark score: 5450

After adding GTX 980 Ti:
Low 40 38 40 38
Hi 71 70 68 69
3DMark score: 11,500

After OC'd CPU from 3.2GHz to 3.6GHz
Low 49 48 48 47
Hi 77 77 73 75
3DMark score: 12,279

I can report that Lara's hair now flows luxuriously and even better, Dirt Rally is now smooth as silk on ultra settings at 1080p. Was on High before.

As for the overclock, I only bought the TX3 so didn't want to push it too far. But I haven't played with voltages yet so I should be able to push this safely up to 3.8 - 4.0 GHz. Time will tell. I'll have a play once the SSD is here.

Big thanks to all who proffered advice. Very helpful. I do think this way round was the better way. I now have a DX12 ready system. And the 980 Ti will follow me on to whatever and whenever I change up.

Cheers.