Upgrade help specifically for MMORPG's.

Potty27

Potty27

Potty27

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Joined
11 Dec 2010
Posts
1,201
Hi all,

Been a while since I've posted or kept up-to-date with builds, so was hoping for some help please.

Current system is 2500k (weak 4.2ghz oc, as using a low-end mobo), 1060 3gb, 16gb 1600 ram, 650w seasonic gold rated psu, 250gb sata III ssd, 3tb hdd.

Looking to increase FPS for MMORPG's (Bless online coming soon), specifically the minimum FPS in highly populated areas. I don't care about running on the highest gfx settings, but do need to have the view range set to max. My monitor is a Dell Ultrasharp at 1440p 60hz.

Not looking to spend more than needed, but would like to future proof things.

Currently thinking to upgrade to something like the following:

CPU - 8700k (I believe most mmo's are CPU bound and that the hyperthreading should help raise the minimum fps, but could be worth saving some money and getting the 8600k?)
Mobo - Gigabyte Aorus Z370 Gaming K3
RAM - 16GB 3000/3200 mhz with ok'ish timings.
SSD - Samsung 960 EVO 250GB
Cooler - Be Quiet Dark Rock Pro 3 (with the aim of clocking the i7/i5 to 4.9ghz)

Reusing my 1060 3gb, 650w psu etc.

Thanks for looking :)
 
Most mmos are single threaded. So even the 8350k or 8600k @ 5ghz would do.
8350k is not a true upgrade, so just leaves the toss up between 8600k and 8700k. Depends on your budget then. Either will make a worthy upgrade to the 2500k
 
Saving cash i7 8700 non K , using higher thread count then 7700k to make up ground, also all cores boost to 4.3ghz !

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £1,101.04 (includes shipping: £11.10)​
​

If going i7 8700k. Wait till Ultra 2.0 boArd is on sale here, already out and same price at Ultra 1.0 but is upgraded beast and free farcry5 with it

Should see previews of ryzen+ tomorrow , might be worth holding out till 19th
 
Thanks both, looks like I'll be aiming for the 8700k then. May hold out for a week or so and see if prices change though, given the Ryzen+ release.

With regards to Motherboard, what advantages (that I'll use) does the Ultra 2.0 have over the cheaper K3 please?

Cheers.
 
Potty27 said:
Thanks both, looks like I'll be aiming for the 8700k then. May hold out for a week or so and see if prices change though, given the Ryzen+ release.

With regards to Motherboard, what advantages (that I'll use) does the Ultra 2.0 have over the cheaper K3 please?

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I've got the K3 , just fine for gaming - VRM doesn't go over 75c whilst gaming at all, but Ultra 2.0 has better VRM quality and more ! Along with better cooling for them.

More VRM/better quality , better the voltage regulation and heat to the Core . Coffeelake does put quite a strain - loose but shell

Plus FarCry5 for free :D should be £160 I believe
 
Cheers, will probably go with the 2.0 then to be on the safe side, though the Gaming 3 seems interesting with the Killer E2500 lan. Reviews for killer seem rather mixed, with some loving it and some hating it, my wifes mobo had Killer and it did seem pretty good I thought.

Forgot to mention but case is currently a Zalman Z11 Plus, not the best for cooling, but assume it'll be ok for a 4.9-5 oc?
 
Potty27 said:
Cheers, will probably go with the 2.0 then to be on the safe side, though the Gaming 3 seems interesting with the Killer E2500 lan. Reviews for killer seem rather mixed, with some loving it and some hating it, my wifes mobo had Killer and it did seem pretty good I thought.

Forgot to mention but case is currently a Zalman Z11 Plus, not the best for cooling, but assume it'll be ok for a 4.9-5 oc?
Click to expand...

its mainly the cooler for handling 4.9/5ghz ! wouldn't really attempt it without 360 AIO or if using flagship air coolers - to be delid and liquid metal applied
 
I think you would be better upgrading the GPU. The reason is that MMORPG's tend to suffer badly from "crowds". Areas that have a lot of players in them. CPU is undoubtedly important, but I think GPU is more important. I think your best upgrade would be a 1070 and then consider the CPU after. Not to say the CPU is pointless, it's not at all, I am just trying to figure which would give you the best return for your money.
 
Pocah said:
I think you would be better upgrading the GPU. The reason is that MMORPG's tend to suffer badly from "crowds". Areas that have a lot of players in them. CPU is undoubtedly important, but I think GPU is more important. I think your best upgrade would be a 1070 and then consider the CPU after. Not to say the CPU is pointless, it's not at all, I am just trying to figure which would give you the best return for your money.
Click to expand...

going from his own spec's his GPU is the recommend hardware from the games developers, though im sure its actually 6GB version but havent stated , but nice to see i7/ryzen 1700 being mentioned for recommended, games finally starting to code more threads in :D
 
orbitalwalsh said:
its mainly the cooler for handling 4.9/5ghz ! wouldn't really attempt it without 360 AIO or if using flagship air coolers - to be delid and liquid metal applied
Click to expand...

Was thinking to get either the dark drock pro 3 or D15 for air cooler, I don't really trust having water in my pc tower... from the horror storys in the early days of water cooling :D

To hit 4.8-4.9 on 24/7 safe temps, would I still need to delid? As delidding is not something I would be comfy risking at this point... :D Pretty sure I could do it ok, but the small risk of £300 down the drain is not worth it to me.

Pocah said:
I think you would be better upgrading the GPU. The reason is that MMORPG's tend to suffer badly from "crowds". Areas that have a lot of players in them. CPU is undoubtedly important, but I think GPU is more important. I think your best upgrade would be a 1070 and then consider the CPU after. Not to say the CPU is pointless, it's not at all, I am just trying to figure which would give you the best return for your money.
Click to expand...

The last mmorpg I was playing I was getting 120 fps (only 1440 60 hz screen) in normal open areas, but around 8 fps for crowded boss battles. I lowered the gfx settings a lot and the fps did not change, the only thing that made any difference was clocking the CPU a little more (4ghz - 4.2ghz) nd that gave an increase of 4fps in crowded areas. Reading up online it's related to the "call-to-draw" in mmo's stressing the CPU? Along with such games being badly optomised?

I don't mind playing with gfx settings on the low side till I can afford updraging the GPU as well, but seems a really bad time to upgrade gpu :o Main thing is getting "min fps" to be always above 30 :D
 
My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £88.69 (includes shipping: £8.70)​
​

this over the previous version! a lot lot easier to mount and fans PWM range has improved, also quiter then D1 at full whack which it will be but slightly warmer !
dont think you'll have problems with 4.8ghz overclock unless your really unlucky and need to add a fair bit more voltage then the norm

why i mentioned non K 8700- hits the middle ground , higher standard boost/core speed then your current chip and is 6c/12t , doesn't get to hot compared to overclocked 8700k and saves cash and still beats ryzen 1700 for pure gaming .

still be interesting to see how ryzen 2700x fairs with 3600hz+ ram against 8700k as they should be in same price for cpu and board .

Gigabyte/aorus transferred lessons learnt from Z370 VRMs and seems x470 are built like a rock, that Aorus 7 has the best heatsink i've seen in about a decade haha
 
orbitalwalsh said:
My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £88.69 (includes shipping: £8.70)
​

this over the previous version! a lot lot easier to mount and fans PWM range has improved, also quiter then D1 at full whack which it will be but slightly warmer !
dont think you'll have problems with 4.8ghz overclock unless your really unlucky and need to add a fair bit more voltage then the norm
Click to expand...

Thanks.

orbitalwalsh said:
why i mentioned non K 8700- hits the middle ground , higher standard boost/core speed then your current chip and is 6c/12t , doesn't get to hot compared to overclocked 8700k and saves cash and still beats ryzen 1700 for pure gaming .

still be interesting to see how ryzen 2700x fairs with 3600hz+ ram against 8700k as they should be in same price for cpu and board .

Gigabyte/aorus transferred lessons learnt from Z370 VRMs and seems x470 are built like a rock, that Aorus 7 has the best heatsink i've seen in about a decade haha
Click to expand...

Yeah planning to wait a week or more before ordering to see what 2700x brings to the table and possible price reductions on Intel? :o

Bless wont be out for a few weeks atleast (probably 2nd half of May), so no huge rush :)
 
Potty27 said:
Reading up online it's related to the "call-to-draw" in mmo's stressing the CPU? Along with such games being badly optomised?
Click to expand...

So called drawcalls are quite limiting - it isn't even truly a CPU bottleneck though a more powerful CPU can alleviate it somewhat as often you end up with a combination of batch size and fixed time slice penalties so a faster CPU can only address one part of the problem of the API bottleneck.
 
Potty27 said:
The last mmorpg I was playing I was getting 120 fps (only 1440 60 hz screen) in normal open areas, but around 8 fps for crowded boss battles. I lowered the gfx settings a lot and the fps did not change, the only thing that made any difference was clocking the CPU a little more (4ghz - 4.2ghz) nd that gave an increase of 4fps in crowded areas. Reading up online it's related to the "call-to-draw" in mmo's stressing the CPU? Along with such games being badly optomised?

I don't mind playing with gfx settings on the low side till I can afford updraging the GPU as well, but seems a really bad time to upgrade gpu :o Main thing is getting "min fps" to be always above 30 :D
Click to expand...

I sort of found similar that lowering the settings didn't do much, but I did find that replacing the GPU made a vast difference. Like you I was getting 10fps in crowded areas and that was with a GTX970 which is about the same as a 1060. But that was with a CPU already pretty good - a 4790K. That fps easily tripled with a GTX1070. You can see where my thinking is coming from here. I dunno, you may well be right, but I am slightly afraid that you aren't going to really see the benefits of an 8700K until you upgrade the 1060 as well.
 
Potty27 said:
Thanks.



Yeah planning to wait a week or more before ordering to see what 2700x brings to the table and possible price reductions on Intel? :o

Bless wont be out for a few weeks atleast (probably 2nd half of May), so no huge rush :)
Click to expand...

its funny, i mentioned z490 chipset in January and only finally gets leaked out now haha , believe that lands before intels z390 too ;) but honestly wouldn't wait for both . if your keen for Gigabyte then Aorus Z370 Ultra 2.0 or Aorus X470 Ultra Gaming is plenty
 
Pocah said:
I sort of found similar that lowering the settings didn't do much, but I did find that replacing the GPU made a vast difference. Like you I was getting 10fps in crowded areas and that was with a GTX970 which is about the same as a 1060. But that was with a CPU already pretty good - a 4790K. That fps easily tripled with a GTX1070. You can see where my thinking is coming from here. I dunno, you may well be right, but I am slightly afraid that you aren't going to really see the benefits of an 8700K until you upgrade the 1060 as well.
Click to expand...

For the game above I did replace the gpu :D from a r9 280x to the 1060, double the fps in normal zones, but still very low in crowded areas. But I see what you mean and I guess it depends on the game. Planning to upgrade the gpu later once prices drop or maybe go with a use 980 ti.

orbitalwalsh said:
its funny, i mentioned z490 chipset in January and only finally gets leaked out now haha , believe that lands before intels z390 too ;) but honestly wouldn't wait for both . if your keen for Gigabyte then Aorus Z370 Ultra 2.0 or Aorus X470 Ultra Gaming is plenty
Click to expand...

I don't really mind what make of Mobo I use, so if another brand is better value I'd be fine with that too :)

By the way, as I don't wish to delid myself, I was looking at ocuk's prices for delidded at the "lower" end of the spectrum, thinking it would not cost much more than retail. I notice that a 4.9ghz delidded chip (i.e. the "binned" chips, as 99%+ can reach 4.9 delidded apparently) sell at £500. Am I missing something or would you bascially be paying £200 extra just for delidding and getting a chip that has no potential for higher clocks?
 
tamzzy said:
correct, aka pointless.
if you want to give away £200, i'm a willing charity case :D
Click to expand...

I can't afford a £500 cpu anyway :D But if the additional cost for delidding service was under £50 I would have considered it to be honest. Not sure why it was suggested under "top sellers", I can't imagine people buying them at that kinda mark up, but I may be wrong :o From what I remember, years ago the price premium for binned processors seemed a lot more reasonable?
 
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