Upgrade this MicroATX i5 3.5GHz/GeForce GTX 1650 or start from scratch? Budget £1k

[Scam]

First off, I'm not a serious gamer. My obsession when I was younger was CS, and COVID got me back into CSGO and then venturing into others like the Metro series, BF and RDR2. In 2020 I upgraded an old build with a new GTX 1650 SUPER (and case to fit it in ) and nice 144Hz monitor and that has kept me playing occasionally... but mostly CSGO.

Now winter is coming and I'm feeling a little flush, I'd like to play a few of the other games on higher settings and without taking a performance hit. Case in point, I just grabbed Dirt Rally 2.0 on sale and thought that looks lovely on high settings (thanks Youtubers), but I'd never be able to play it like that. Also thinking I might finally start GTA5...

So, vague budget is ~£1,000. Preferably less. Current spec is below.

Windows 10 64bit
Intel i5-4690 CPU @ 3.50GHz
Gigabyte H97N-WiFi motherboard
RAM TeamGroup Elite Black 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 1600MHz
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 SUPER
Antec VP450P 450W '80 Plus' Continuous Power Supply
1x SSD for OS, 1x SSD for games, 1x spinning disk for media
Thermaltake Versa H15 Micro ATX Gaming Case
AOC Gaming 24G2U 24" 1920x1080 IPS 144Hz Gaming Monitor

Bear in mind I've been out of the build game for a while, so to build/upgrade myself wouldn't be a day of slapping everything together, I'd need to pore over Youtube to remind myself how to seat a cpu, install an OS etc. (e.g. I know nothing about NVMe) I'm certainly more time-poor than money-poor at this point, so the idea of bunging OcUK a cool £1k to ship me something pre-built is very tempting indeed...

Thanks in advance

 

[Tetras]

so the idea of bunging OcUK a cool £1k to ship me something pre-built is very tempting indeed...

Something like that?

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x OcUK Gaming Quartz - Intel Core i5 12400F, RTX 4060 Pre-Built Gaming PC (SKU: FS-PB01-EP) = £849.98

Total: £849.98 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

​

Roughly equivalent spec, but note:
- Upgrade the RAM from 16GB to 32GB.
- Likely to have a significantly better PSU than OCUK will fit.
- An expensive way to get Windows.

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Intel Core i5-12400F 2.50GHz (Alder Lake) Socket LGA1700 Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-6AR-IN) = £98.99
• 1 x Asus Prime B760M-A WIFI D4 (LGA 1700) DDR4 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-6KG-AS) = £109.99
• 1 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AJ-TG) = £55.99
• 1 x Zotac GeForce RTX 4060 Twin Edge 8GB Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-ZTC-03197) = £259.99
• 1 x Team Group MP44L 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-TMG-03128) = £50.00
• 1 x Kolink Observatory MX Mesh ARGB Midi Tower Case - White (SKU: CA-086-KK) = £43.99
• 1 x Phanteks AMP GH 750W 80PLUS Gold ATX Power Supply Modular - Black (SKU: POW-PHK-02517) = £84.95
• 1 x Microsoft Windows 11 Home 64-Bit DVD - OEM (KW9-00632) (SKU: SW-18J-MS) = £107.98

Total: £811.88 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

 

[Scam]

Something like that?

Thanks Tetras I was just looking at the pre-built systems and thinking there's probably no need for me to spend £1,000! I understand new GPUs are coming soon, none of this is urgent so would I see a price decrease before Christmas? (Guessing not).

Also, I just realised I should be able to upgrade from Win10 for free right? I can only find my WinXP disc currently .. not sure what my upgrade path was there but I will have a hunt tomorrow.

 

[Tetras]

Thanks Tetras I was just looking at the pre-built systems and thinking there's probably no need for me to spend £1,000!

To be honest, if you just want playability in the majority of games you don't even need to do that. You could get an 8 thread i7 CPU (or Xeon equivalent, if cheaper), upgrade to 16GB and something like an RX 6600/6650 XT or 4060.

I understand new GPUs are coming soon, none of this is urgent so would I see a price decrease before Christmas? (Guessing not).

From what I'm aware, the 5060/5070 are probably quite a way out, at least into 2025. AMD's GPUs are likely to start around the level of a 7800 XT or 7900 XT. There have been some deals lately, e.g. 7700 XT around £300 and 7800 XT under £400, so I think that is a sign of what prices might be widespread around black friday/cyber monday.

Also, I just realised I should be able to upgrade from Win10 for free right?

Not having the disc is no issue, you can just download a USB creator from Microsoft, but the activation process is... complicated. I'd recommend having a good read on the best way to tackle that because Microsoft are nowhere near as forgiving as they were before the Windows 7/8.1 key upgrade deactivation.

 

[moppy89]

Definitely start new rather upgrade here, think you've come to the end of the upgrade path! Still will be a decent back up pc or Htpc server or something though

 

[Scam]

Not having the disc is no issue, you can just download a USB creator from Microsoft, but the activation process is... complicated. I'd recommend having a good read on the best way to tackle that because Microsoft are nowhere near as forgiving as they were before the Windows 7/8.1 key upgrade deactivation.

Found my Win8 disc, I guess I upgraded to Win10 from that. Specifically what I have is this; Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-Bit DVD - OEM (WN7-00614). This is where I veer into the stupid question territory.. How does one install Windows without bothering to buy a DVD drive? And obviously, I'll need to look into if I can get that upgraded to Win11. And if I can use that installer on what is essentially a new build?

Definitely start new rather upgrade here, think you've come to the end of the upgrade path! Still will be a decent back up pc or Htpc server or something though

Thanks. Funny you should say that as my my upgrade as mentioned in the OP was from a lovely little Lian Li PC-Q03 Mini ITX case which I've failed to get rid of. I'd love to turn that into a mini server, looks like the mobo does onboard graphics etc. I'd just be worried about power consumption?

 

[Tetras]

Found my Win8 disc, I guess I upgraded to Win10 from that. Specifically what I have is this; Microsoft Windows 8.1 64-Bit DVD - OEM (WN7-00614). This is where I veer into the stupid question territory.. How does one install Windows without bothering to buy a DVD drive? And obviously, I'll need to look into if I can get that upgraded to Win11. And if I can use that installer on what is essentially a new build?

So..., the install part is easy, because you can just download the installer for a USB drive. Though, I'm not sure how easy Microsoft make it to download one for 8.1 at this point, you may need to use Rufus or get a direct link to their download archive.

The activation part, that's more difficult.

I honestly don't know what the best way to tackle that is, because Windows 8.1 keys no longer activate Windows 10/11 from a fresh install, so ideally you don't want to lose your existing activation. If you already run Windows 10 (which you do), then your activation would have been transferred to a digital license and if you have a Microsoft account, registered on your account too.

Sometimes if you transfer the install it will just activate no problem, or you can use the troubleshooter, but since they deactivated the old keys from registering on 10/11 that doesn't tend to go so well lately.

If there's an optimal way to handle this, I don't know it, maybe you could start a new thread in the software/Windows section, or have a look on the likes of reddit.

 

[Scam]

Thanks @Tetras I've done that. Sooooo, a few questions here..

Firstly I see a lot of talk about AMD being the best choice right now, both bang-for-buck and also because of the manufacturing issues that Intel has had recently? Any reason you went Intel?

Secondly, this is my current Thermaltake case. Because I have the old Lian-Li case to build my server/NAS in afterwards, I may as well use the existing Thermaltake case for this build. Any issues you can see with that? A quick check on GPU lengths and it seems ok.

CPU cooler height limitation: 155mm
VGA length limitation: 315mm

I also currently have one 256GB SSD for Windows and a 1TB SSD for games. I like that separation, do people still do that?

I'm hoping with the possibly savings on a Windows licence, plus no need for case maybe I can put that towards 2x SSDs and maybe a bit of an upgrade on the cpu and gpu if it is worth it going up to £1k or thereabouts. Could I get to an AM5 build for <£1k?

Cheers!

 

[Tetras]

Firstly I see a lot of talk about AMD being the best choice right now, both bang-for-buck and also because of the manufacturing issues that Intel has had recently? Any reason you went Intel?

12th gen is not affected and the Ryzen 5600 and i5-12400F are so close in price and performance that they're really the same, you can just toss a coin to pick one.

In regards to AM5 versus Intel, that's more complicated, since the lower-end AM5 CPUs are plenty fast in games, but tend to lose in productivity. Still, you have to be very focused on productivity to choose a potentially problematic Intel over the solid (so far) AM5 option.

Could I get to an AM5 build for <£1k?

Yep, no problem! You can get B650 boards from £100ish, the last I looked (yesterday) OCUK's cheapest is the Eagle at £135. Note that AM5 X CPUs don't have coolers (even the 7600X), but the freezer 36 that OCUK have for £23 can cool any of these CPUs.

I consider the current UK retail prices of 7000 series CPUs to be overpriced (based on their prices in other countries), particularly the 7600 and 7700, so I'd hope that there are some big deals coming in the next few weeks.

I also currently have one 256GB SSD for Windows and a 1TB SSD for games. I like that separation, do people still do that?

Not so much, no. M.2 slots aren't something you get in abundance on most boards.

Secondly, this is my current Thermaltake case. Because I have the old Lian-Li case to build my server/NAS in afterwards, I may as well use the existing Thermaltake case for this build. Any issues you can see with that? A quick check on GPU lengths and it seems ok.

It should be alright with the kind of build you're thinking of, but higher-end graphics you'd have to pick more carefully (if you got one in the future). I'd also be aware that the CPU height restriction is theoretically too short for a lot of popular coolers, though just a few mm would change that so probably worth checking actual user experiences.

 

[Scam]

Thanks. I just threw this build together in the basket to see what price point it came out on. I think you're right about the 7XXX series right now. Not sure if I could get an AM5 build under £1k right now Maybe best upping the GFX card with an AM5 build maybe? I didn't base this on anything apart from the cpu, I think the 5700x3d is possibly the best pick at the ~£200 mark? I'm really not fussed for productivity. I do probably 80% of my general browsing and stuff on my work-provided Macbook

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 7 5700X3D Eight Core 4.1GHz (Socket AM4) Processor - Retail (SKU: PRO-AMD-01799) = £209.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B550M DS3H (AMD AM4) B550 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MB-5BR-GI) = £89.99
• 2 x Team Group Vulcan Z T-Force 32GB (2x16GB) DDR4 PC4-25600C16 3200MHz Dual Channel Kit - Grey (SKU: MY-0AJ-TG) = £55.99
• 1 x Zotac GeForce RTX 4060 Twin Edge 8GB Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-ZTC-03197) = £239.99
• 1 x Crucial P3 PLUS 1TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-07A-CR) = £58.99
• 1 x Crucial P3 PLUS 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: HD-07B-CR) = £100.99
• 1 x Antec HCG 850 Pro Platinum 850W ATX3.1 Full modular Power Supply (SKU: POW-ATC-02745) = £159.95
• 1 x Thermalright Assassin Spirit 120 Evo Dark CPU Cooler - 120 mm (SKU: COO-TLR-02667) = £19.99

Total: £999.86 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

I'm not exactly going to buy that right now, just curious how it came out. Maybe I'll try a AM5 build and see where it ends up. That could be cheaper without the 2x SSDs and with a cheaper PSU but I got stuck finding one. I'd be interested to try and put together an AM5 build that could perform similarly... and I'm still wondering if I should spend more on the gfx..

If there's one thing I'd got for with my gut is a Gigabyte mobo. That'd what I have now and it's just great. Very easy when using the BIOS, nice feature set, has obviously lasted me a long time too.

It should be alright with the kind of build you're thinking of, but higher-end graphics you'd have to pick more carefully (if you got one in the future). I'd also be aware that the CPU height restriction is theoretically too short for a lot of popular coolers, though just a few mm would change that so probably worth checking actual user experiences.

Noted on that.

EDIT: Also confused why OcUK has "Ryzen 5" cpus that are model numbers 7600X or 9600X? Why are they still Ryzen 5s?

 

[mickyflinn]

Change the psu to this and add the extra £70 towards an AM5 build with a 7600 CPU.

The 7600 performs very similar to the 5700x3d.

be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 10 850W 80 Plus Gold Power Supply

Order be quiet! SYSTEM POWER 10 850W 80 Plus Gold Power Supply now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

 

[Tetras]

I think the 5700x3d is possibly the best pick at the ~£200 mark?

It performs pretty darn good and is very competitive even with recent CPUs, but investing in a new AM4 build is not something I'd want to do, even if I consider the entry-level AM5 CPUs overpriced.

and with a cheaper PSU but I got stuck finding one

The HCG is a really nice PSU (based on Seasonic's Vertex), but in my opinion it would be very out of place with your build. I usually only include them in more like.. 2K+ specs.

My suggestion is the TUF, or if it needs to be compact, the Phanteks:

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming 750W 80 Plus Gold Power Supply (SKU: CA-061-AS) = £79.99
• 1 x Phanteks AMP GH 750W 80PLUS Gold ATX Power Supply Modular - Black (SKU: POW-PHK-02517) = £84.95

Total: £172.93 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

There's a review of the Tuf here:

The ASUS TUF Gaming 850W Gold PSU Review: Tough But Fair

www.anandtech.com

Not aware of any reviews of the Amp GH yet, but is believed to be built by Helly who Seasonic use for their lower-end models. The warranty is 8 year (versus 10 on the Tuf).

and I'm still wondering if I should spend more on the gfx..

I do like the 4060, the power consumption is a big bonus and most of the cards are pretty compact which is helpful in a small build, but in the longer-term it is definitely not ideal. I think a card on the level of a 4070 or 7800 XT is going to last a lot better, but unless black friday has some great deals they're going to push your budget (especially with AM5).

My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 8600G Six Core 4.3GHz (Socket AM5) APU with Radeon 760M Graphics (SKU: PRO-AMD-01797) = £149.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B650M D3HP AX (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MOT-GIG-03566) = £104.99
• 1 x Kingston FURY Beast EXPO 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C36 5600MHz Dual Channel Kit (KF556C36BBEK2-32) (SKU: MY-29U-KS) = £89.99
• 1 x SAPPHIRE PULSE AMD Radeon™ RX 7800 XT Gaming Graphics Card with 16GB GDDR6, AMD RDNA™ 3 architecture (SKU: GRA-SPR-00764) = £419.98
• 1 x Team Group MP44L 2TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-TMG-03129) = £99.95
• 1 x Team Group MP44L 1TB SSD M.2 2280 NVME PCI-E Gen4 Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-TMG-03128) = £49.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming 750W 80 Plus Gold Power Supply (SKU: CA-061-AS) = £79.99

Total: £1,002.88 (includes delivery: £7.99)​

 

[Scam]

Thanks both. I really think I'd want to stick with Nvidia for graphics. I remember having a Radeon back in the day and just, well I dunno just not as keen. I seem to recall having quite a few problems getting good performance out of it. And Nvidia is just the go-to now. I'll have to see if I can put together an AM5 build with Nvidia now..

See my edit above, EDIT: Also confused why there are "Ryzen 5" cpus that are model numbers 7600X or 9600X? Why are they still Ryzen 5s?

 

[Tetras]

I really think I'd want to stick with Nvidia for graphics.

Maybe I'm deluded, but I think a 4070 for 7800 XT price (~£400) is possible in the upcoming deals. They were under £450 at OCUK awhile back, so we're not asking for a miracle there. The 4060 Ti 16GB you can get for that already, but I wouldn't pay that kind of price for one when the 7800 XT smokes it.

Also confused why there are "Ryzen 5" cpus that are model numbers 7600X or 9600X? Why are they still Ryzen 5s?

This isn't exact, but normally it works out to:
- Ryzen 9 is 12 or 16 cores
- Ryzen 7 is 8 cores.
- Ryzen 5 is 6 cores.
- Ryzen 3 is 4 cores.

 

[Scam]

I remember how PC budgeting works.. it just goes up and up and up

I was reading briefly today that the 7600X performs better than the 8600G? I threw this together on the train this morning, no idea about the cpu cooler - just seeing if I could get myself close enough to £1000 to pretend it’s under that lol

With the case I have, should I be adding a front fan and exhaust fan maybe? I have an exhaust fan sitting on top of it thay was designed to sit on top of amplifiers, sucks up and exhausts out the back. Reason I ask is because it does sit in a cupboard - to which I’ve also fitted an exhaust fan and extra holes to the back - yes I was insistent on putting my PC in the cupboard when I built my desk

Anyway, I threw this together on the train..
My basket at OcUK:

• 1 x Zotac GeForce RTX 4070 Twin Edge 12GB GDDR6 Graphics Card (SKU: GRA-ZTC-03195) = £479.99
• 1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600X Six Core 5.30GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DG-AM) = £199.99
• 1 x Kingston FURY Beast 16GB (2x8GB) DDR5 PC5-44800C40 5600MHz Dual Channel Kit (SKU: MY-29M-KS) = £49.99
• 1 x Samsung 990 Evo 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 / 5.0 Hybrid NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-SAM-01533) = £179.99
• 1 x Thermalright Assassin Spirit 120 V2 PLUS CPU Air Cooler (SKU: COO-TLR-03264) = £19.99
• 1 x Gigabyte B650M D3HP AX (Socket AM5) DDR5 Micro-ATX Motherboard (SKU: MOT-GIG-03566) = £104.99
• 1 x Asus TUF Gaming 750W 80 Plus Gold Power Supply (SKU: CA-061-AS) = £79.99

Total: £1,114.93 (includes delivery: £0.00)​

 

[Tetras]

I was reading briefly today that the 7600X performs better than the 8600G?

Yeah, it does, I was just trying to get AM5 in your budget.

1 x Samsung 990 Evo 2TB M.2 2280 PCI-e 4.0 / 5.0 Hybrid NVMe Solid State Drive (SKU: STO-SAM-01533) = £179.99

Unless SSD performance is super important to you for some reason (for gaming, that's very rarely the case) I'd get a cheaper SSD and bump up the RAM to 32GB.

You don't really want to buy nerfed 8GB sticks (they only have 4 memory chips) with DDR5 and the resale value/reusability will be poor.

1 x AMD Ryzen 5 7600X Six Core 5.30GHz (Socket AM5) Processor - Retail (SKU: CP-3DG-AM) = £199.99

1 x Thermalright Assassin Spirit 120 V2 PLUS CPU Air Cooler (SKU: COO-TLR-03264) = £19.99

If you get the 7600 non-X, it comes with a cooler and you can ditch the assassin spirit, but the cooler choice is fine. There are more options if you're willing to import or buy a bundle, like the 7500F.