Upgrading my old OCUK build

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So the last couple of month's I've been aware my PC is struggling to play new and some not new games. I hadn't realised the CPU etc haven't been upgraded since 2013 and the gfx card in 2017. I'm looking to upgrade but I'm aware of the GFX issues so I think it makes sense to keep the 970 for now?

Case:
BeQuiet Silent Base 800
Power Supply: BeQuiet Pure Power L8 530W Modular
CPU: Intel Core i5-3470 3.20GHz Ivybridge
Motherboard: Asus P8Z77-V LX2 Intel Z77
Cooler: BeQuiet Pure Rock
RAM: Patriot Viper Xtreme 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3 PC3-12800C8 1600MHz Dual Channel
Hard Drive: Sandisk SDSSDP128G
Graphics Card: Gigabyte GTX 970 WINDFORCE 4GB
Operating System: Windows 10

I'm struggling to play games such as hearts of iron 4 & newer total war's. I'd also like to play some of the newer titles on EA access/xbox game pass.

Thanks in advance guys!
 
My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £406.47 (includes shipping: £10.50)​

And a bigger SSD for your games if there's anything left over.

My basket at Overclockers UK:
Total: £95.69 (includes shipping: £8.70)​
 
The 970 is a good card on older games but struggles on the newest such as cyberpunk 2077. While you wait to get a new gpu turn down the games settings to increase fps as required, the 11400 above is a good chip for a future gpu upgrade
 
The 970 is a good card on older games but struggles on the newest such as cyberpunk 2077. While you wait to get a new gpu turn down the games settings to increase fps as required, the 11400 above is a good chip for a future gpu upgrade

He can get an fps increase (and far more smoothness) already from the headroom more than 4 cores with zero hyperthreading provides, the 16GB v 8GB memory (it'll be relying on the slow page file in some games) and also the faster IPC of the 11th Gen CPU will squeeze more frames out of the 970. So if he's struggling now this will help substantially already even without new GPU. I wouldn't have specced that if the only reason was it would be a good chip for future upgrades. If that were the case, he may as well wait for a new GPU to become available and see what CPU he can get then.
 
He can get an fps increase (and far more smoothness) already from the headroom more than 4 cores with zero hyperthreading provides, the 16GB v 8GB memory (it'll be relying on the slow page file in some games) and also the faster IPC of the 11th Gen CPU will squeeze more frames out of the 970. So if he's struggling now this will help substantially already even without new GPU. I wouldn't have specced that if the only reason was it would be a good chip for future upgrades. If that were the case, he may as well wait for a new GPU to become available and see what CPU he can get then.

Don't think I was critical of you, indeed I agreed the 11400 was a good chip. However, the 11400 will not make the 970 play smoothly in all the newest games from the reviews I have seen, eg https://youtu.be/xYRPFMDBTgA. If he wants to play the very recent demanding games like cyberpunk 2077 at decent fps and high settings then the 970 while a good card is getting long in the tooth. It will work well with older games and less demanding new games
 
Don't think I was critical of you, indeed I agreed the 11400 was a good chip. However, the 11400 will not make the 970 play smoothly in all the newest games from the reviews I have seen, eg https://youtu.be/xYRPFMDBTgA. If he wants to play the very recent demanding games like cyberpunk 2077 at decent fps and high settings then the 970 while a good card is getting long in the tooth. It will work well with older games and less demanding new games

GPU situation is what it is. What it boils down to: the 11400 will double his fps on average even with the same 970. It's not just a good chip for future GPU upgrade. I'm not saying you intended to imply that, but I did feel like the OP would benefit from that clarification.
 
GPU situation is what it is. What it boils down to: the 11400 will double his fps on average even with the same 970. It's not just a good chip for future GPU upgrade. I'm not saying you intended to imply that, but I did feel like the OP would benefit from that clarification.

I would have hoped that the OP understands that if the 11400 is good for a future upgrade then it will not be a bottle neck for his 970 either
 
I would have hoped that the OP understands that if the 11400 is good for a future upgrade then it will not be a bottle neck for his 970 either

What's not so obvious to everyone is how the 3470 is a massive bottleneck for even a 970 in many games right now.
 
Firstly, still don't know how I disagreed that a 11400 wasn't a good upgrade.
Secondly, to say that the 3470 is a massive bottleneck is simplistic, if someone uses a 4k monitor more of the work is done by the GPU, and they wouldn't see as much of a difference moving to the 11400, probably none that could be seen by the naked eye.
Even at what many people class as the best resolution for gaming, 1440p, an independent website sees the 3470 as being a good match for the 970, not a massive bottleneck.

Graphic card and processor will work great together on 1440p resolution
Core i5-3470 & GeForce GTX 970 | Bottleneck calculator | PC Builds (pc-builds.com)
 
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Firstly, still don't know how I disagreed that a 11400 wasn't a good upgrade.

Because you keep moving the argument to a non-existent one. Nobody said you disagreed that it was a good upgrade but in your post you only mentioned increased fps by turning down settings while he waits for new GPU and how the 11400 would be a good chip for a GPU upgrade.


Secondly, to say that the 3470 is a massive bottleneck is simplistic, if someone uses a 4k monitor more of the work is done by the GPU, and they wouldn't see as much of a difference moving to the 11400, probably none that could be seen by the naked eye.
Even at what many people class as the best resolution for gaming, 1440p, an independent website sees the 3470 as being a good match for the 970, not a massive bottleneck.

Graphic card and processor will work great together on 1440p resolution
Core i5-3470 & GeForce GTX 970 | Bottleneck calculator | PC Builds (pc-builds.com)

Did you read further down that page or did you just spend hours trying to find a bit of data that matched your preconceptions?

Fpv9BMS.png


Also, watch this 3470 comparison with 1650 Super, faster than 970 but not all that far, and with a slightly slower (than 11400) 3600 CPU:


That comparison lines up closely with the CPU bottleneck percentage quoted for the games above with 3470 + 970.

And this:


With an RX 580 that's closer in performance to 970 and the 10th Gen equivalent of the 11400.

Not included in the Bottleneck calculator are the newer Total Wars (a game he mentions) some of which use a lot of cores.

Anyway, it's become obvious why you're arguing and don't want to understand - because you honestly believed the 3470 is still a good pairing for a 970 these days. Like I said, not everyone knows what a massive bottleneck it is.
 
LMAO, don't think a link to a web page that took 30 seconds amounts to spending hours to find data.

This took another 15 seconds to find, it shows a case that the 970 is being well used by the 3470. Again the 11400 is a good chip, which I said right from the beginning and will also go well with a gpu upgrade.

https://youtu.be/HJBo1ympEK4?t=32
 
*Opens youtube link*
*Sees the 4 cores regularly in the 90s and hitting 100% occasionally causing some freezes/hitches*

Not the best example to make your case.

Do better. At least interpret the data correctly (3470 is bottlenecking the 970, latter's not being well used), and also try to find a side-by-side comparison.
 
See you are still trolling. The example, fits what I said perfectly.
1. As I have stated several times, I said from the beginning that the 11400 would be good for a future upgrade. You seem to be agreeing with me now, saying that I provided an example showing the 3470 hitting the 90% to 100% usage, this shows evidence to support this. Please provide evidence of when I said that he must stick with the 3470 as you seem to be implying I said.
2. You say that the 3470 is a massive bottleneck for the 970, a bottleneck is considered 10% so lets say a massive bottleneck is 20%, what % of time does the video show the 970 being used 80% or less compared to over 90%
 
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See you are still trolling. The example, fits what I said perfectly.
1. As I have stated several times, I said from the beginning that the 11400 would be good for a future upgrade. You seem to be agreeing with me now

You are trolling yourself by continuing to pretend there was an argument about that.


Please provide evidence of when I said that he must stick with the 3470 as you seem to be implying I said.

Your failure to state your case for him upgrading CPU now, other than it would be a good chip for a GPU upgrade. Your sustained argument that the 3470 is "great" for a 970. And your complete lack of acknowledgement of how the webpage you linked to, and the vids I posted, show how massive the bottleneck can be. Ignoring those for one vid, with particular settings, that only show a bottleneck not a massive one, a bottleneck which you still refer to as "well used".

So go ahead and state your case for him upgrading CPU now. Why haven't you done so? Is it because I already stated the case for that and you just don't want to agree and continue to argue?


2. You say that the 3470 is a massive bottleneck for the 970

It is. There is proof of that in this thread. Not only that I provided but which you provided. Evidence of massive bottlenecking in some games, and evidence of bottlenecking in the video you linked to. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.


a bottleneck is considered 10% so lets say a massive bottleneck is 20%, what % of time does the video show the 970 being used 80% or less compared to over 90%

Re: the video - I said bottleneck. Now you agree it is a bottleneck so isn't being well-used. Massive bottlenecks in other games and/or other settings.

Since you mention it we should talk about what's going on in that particular video and what you said about turning down settings to get increased fps:

He has set the graphics settings high enough so that the 3470 can (barely) cope with the (fewer) frames it has to provide. At the same time the GPU also has to work harder to provide frames of greater quality. This minimizes the bottlenecking from massive to just bottlenecking (as I said) but can produce a misleading impression and is actually a form of self-bottlenecking lol. Turn some of those settings down for increased fps and you then see GPU Usage % going down, down, down and CPU Usage % going up and staying up.

Now, with an 11400 you would see either of two things:

1. With the same settings, you'd get a fair increase in fps, more smoothness in general.
2. If you turned some settings down, you will hit about twice the fps that is achievable with the 3470.

Bringing it back to the OP's needs - if he says it is struggling right now, he's not going to turn the graphics settings UP just to see a number on a screen show that the 3470 isn't hitting 100% Usage all the time. And if he isn't completely asinine, he will already know you can turn down graphics settings for more fps and has likely already tried that, and has found the 3470 letting him down.
 
See you are still trolling, the OP wrote. "I'm looking to upgrade but I'm aware of the GFX issues so I think it makes sense to keep the 970 for now"

So I read that as they want to upgrade their CPU now, and their GPU at a later date when supply/price is better and they are keeping their 970 only for now.
I agreed that the 11400 would be a good buy for their upgrade plans now and the later GPU that the OP is planning to get.

You now seem to agree with what I am saying, you said "You are trolling yourself by continuing to pretend there was an argument about that". If there was no argument about what I was saying why did you start one?
 
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No matter how much I explain it still doesn't help and repeating oneself isn't good. Neither of us is getting what we want from each other so it'd be a good time to just drop it. Maybe we could understand each other better on something else at a different time. Just not this. Be well.
 
Even at what many people class as the best resolution for gaming, 1440p, an independent website sees the 3470 as being a good match for the 970, not a massive bottleneck.

Graphic card and processor will work great together on 1440p resolution
Core i5-3470 & GeForce GTX 970 | Bottleneck calculator | PC Builds (pc-builds.com)
Just remove that site from browser history and bookmarks.
It's not reliable.

More older slower cores won't ever give more fps in games over step fewer clearly superior cores.
Even multitihreaded games have critical for performance main thread or two, for which extra cores won't help over single core performance.
Hence 6 core Zen2 beats 8 core Zen(/+) in games, just like 6 core Zen3 beats 8 core Zen2.
In fact 6 core Zen3 would beat 16 core Zen2 in nearly every game, because of lack of enough multithreading and performance critical main thread issue.

And AMD is making such architectural improvements that older model is nearly matched by newer step lower core count model even in completely multithreading workloads.


If he wants to play the very recent demanding games like cyberpunk 2077 at decent fps and high settings then the 970 while a good card is getting long in the tooth.
4C/4T CPU is serious limit in Cyberpunk.
https://overclock3d.net/reviews/software/cyberpunk_2077_performance_review_and_optimisation_guide/4
And Zen2 is major amount superior in per core performance over old Haswell, whose average and especially minimums would be even worser.

Then add over time gathered background bloat of normal PC and CPU is running out of workers even more badly.
Quad thread CPU is simply from Intel stagnation era.
 
Power Supply: BeQuiet Pure Power L8 530W Modular
Would definitely look into upgrading also that.
Despite of brand hype it was newer high quality PSU in the first place, but at best mid level quality PSU with very outdated, low end (already dozen years ago) design and now it's old such.
 
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