UPS replacement

Phil2008 · 26 Apr 2011 at 12:14

Im amazed as most UPS are only 320 joules as Ive been looking the net for a replacement of my belkin 1200va UPS. But even most of the APC ups are 320 joules and my belkin is 420 joules. So Im prob best to replace the batteries then downgrade myself on the surge protection side.

You can buy the batteries But I don't think they are very easy to get out, so I'll remove the batts before I order new ones, incase I brake the UPS getting them out.

bremen1874 · 26 Apr 2011 at 13:56

The joules rating is a measure of how much energy can be dissipated before the surge protector will fail. It has little to do with the protection of the connected equipment.

Phil2008 · 26 Apr 2011 at 14:56

Ah yeah now I remember,, to figger out the surge protection you have to x the amps the volts to get the max watt surge it can deal with. My UPS can kill a 39.000.000watt surge apparently.

So how meny secs or milliseconds is 420 joules before my ups dies??

Energize · 26 Apr 2011 at 15:10

Joules is just a unit of energy, it has no time component. Anyway changing a UPS battery is very easy, they just pull out. Surely you put the battery in the UPS when you first used it?

bremen1874 · 26 Apr 2011 at 15:58

Energize said:
Joules is just a unit of energy, it has no time component.

A joule is the measure of energy expended (work) so it does have a time component.

Energize · 26 Apr 2011 at 16:20

bremen1874 said:
A joule is the measure of energy expended (work) so it does have a time component.

That 420 joules can be within any time period, Watt is a measure of energy transferred over time.

Phil2008 · 26 Apr 2011 at 21:24

Energize said:
Joules is just a unit of energy, it has no time component. Anyway changing a UPS battery is very easy, they just pull out. Surely you put the battery in the UPS when you first used it?

I wish, it not nice and simple like APC UPS to change the batts, look........

You have to remove every thing around them and then try to get them out on the metal frame..

Also you have to be very careful taking off the metal case as the circuit board on top is only millimetres away from the case, so if you touch the board while taking off the case, bye bye ups. But Ive read if you slide the case back just enough so you can disconnect 1 of the bat leads, and then it dont matter what the case touches.

But you must be able to replace them some how, as you can buy the batteries for the UPS.. But Im not sure how I will be able to get the batts out of the metal frame :eek:

bremen1874 · 26 Apr 2011 at 21:51

There's a useful looking battery replacement guide here that might be applicable.

AtaRo · 26 Apr 2011 at 22:25

Phil2008 said:
I wish, it not nice and simple like APC UPS to change the batts, look........

You have to remove every thing around them and then try to get them out on the metal frame..

Also you have to be very careful taking off the metal case as the circuit board on top is only millimetres away from the case, so if you touch the board while taking off the case, bye bye ups. But Ive read if you slide the case back just enough so you can disconnect 1 of the bat leads, and then it dont matter what the case touches.

But you must be able to replace them some how, as you can buy the batteries for the UPS.. But Im not sure how I will be able to get the batts out of the metal frame

Looks like a Plexus unit and looks like a 500VA unit.
I have removed some battery from a 1500VA unit but have not tried a 500VA unit yet but it looks like you need to removed the 2 transformer bolts at the bottom to removed the metal panel that holds the battery.
This type of UPS does not have an overtemp protection on the battery which is not good as if the battery becomes faulty/leaky the charger will continue to charge it continuously which in turn makes the battery very hot (learned it the hard way) which could cause the battery to leak acid or worse.
Where do you intend to get the batteries from? as I also got a few units for battery replacement.

Energize · 26 Apr 2011 at 22:38

Jesus, you might as well buy a new APC.

Phil2008 · 26 Apr 2011 at 23:54

AtaRo said:
Looks like a Plexus unit and looks like a 500VA unit.
I have removed some battery from a 1500VA unit but have not tried a 500VA unit yet but it looks like you need to removed the 2 transformer bolts at the bottom to removed the metal panel that holds the battery.
This type of UPS does not have an overtemp protection on the battery which is not good as if the battery becomes faulty/leaky the charger will continue to charge it continuously which in turn makes the battery very hot (learned it the hard way) which could cause the battery to leak acid or worse.
Where do you intend to get the batteries from? as I also got a few units for battery replacement.

My UPS is the "Belkin 1200va with AVR" and that pic was a belkin 800va, but Im guessing the insides look the same. I can buy the batts from ebay or from here.......

http://www.hardwarexpress.co.uk/belkin-f6c120-ups-battery-replacement-168-p.asp

These are the pics of the both sides of the 800va ups, as I should have put them both on before

Energize said:
Jesus, you might as well buy a new APC.

Yeah thats what I was going todo, but my belkin ups seems quite decent after browing the net for a new one.

Phil2008 · 27 Apr 2011 at 00:01

bremen1874 said:
There's a useful looking battery replacement guide here that might be applicable.

Looks quite tricky, and you need steady hands by the looks :eek:

AtaRo · 27 Apr 2011 at 00:24

The screw that you need to removed should be indicated in the arrow.

westom · 27 Apr 2011 at 00:47

Phil2008 said:
So how meny secs or milliseconds is 420 joules before my ups dies??

A destructive surge can be hundreds of thousands of joules. But as long as a power strip or UPS claims any number above zero, then they can claim 100% protection in advertising.

It does not claim to protect from typically destructive surges. But it does get a majority to recommend that protection. Because near zero joules is also 100% protection when facts are ignored.

Energize · 27 Apr 2011 at 00:59

A typical lightening strike is around 500 million joules, however it would bypass any surge protector anyway. It's very misleading really.

westom · 27 Apr 2011 at 01:12

Energize said:
A typical lightening strike is around 500 million joules, however it would bypass any surge protector anyway. It's very misleading really.

Only one who wants to be scammed would even think a protector stops a surge. Routine all over the world is to have direct lightning strikes without damage. But what is done routinely for over 100 years also says your many assumptions only create damage.

A telco CO suffers typically 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days after each thunderstorm? Never? Because they do not waste so much money on useless protectors that foolishly claim to stop surges.

Effective protection means massive energy remains outside a building. Means massive energy dissipates harmlessly in earth. What do those manipulated by retail propaganda not discuss? Where energy from direct lightning strikes routinely dissipate without any damage even to the protector.

Phil2008 · 27 Apr 2011 at 06:30

About 5yrs ago,, we had a sudden storm,, a huge bang of thunder, our mains tripswitch went off, but it didnt go off fast enough to save my pc.. dammit...

That wasnt the main reason I got a ups tho. A few yrs later our mains tripswitch started tripping randomly and would go off like 2-3times a day, so thats was the main reason of getting 1. Mum thought the whole house needed rewireing, so she put it off for about a yr before doing anything about it, ans in the end we only needed a new tripswitch,, hehe. but during that year when the power was off and on like a yoyo, the UPS didnt fail once to kick in and keep my pc going.

Im hoping my ups is faster then our tripswitch was and protect me against another 1 of those sudden thunder storms and protect my pc during a storm, when Im not at home to unplug everything, like it did a few days ago, I wasnt at home and we had a short sharp storm.

Its a piece of mind if anything tho, that your pc is slightly protected against storms, when your not there to unplug everything.

AtaRo · 27 Apr 2011 at 08:14

Energize said:
A typical lightening strike is around 500 million joules, however it would bypass any surge protector anyway. It's very misleading really.

If your in the near vicinity of the lighting strikes then not any form of surge protection will save your equipment unless it is not plug in.
Also as the lighting travels along the power lines this is where lightning arrester and surge diverter in the power lines comes in, its not like when the lightining hits point A and travels along to point B it will still have the same amount of power when it reaches Point B, some of it will be reduced/absorb by the lightning arrester and surge diverter and also by the consumer equipment that is connected to the line.

Phil2008 · 27 Apr 2011 at 11:59

AtaRo said:
If your in the near vicinity of the lighting strikes then not any form of surge protection will save your equipment unless it is not plug in.
Also as the lighting travels along the power lines this is where lightning arrester and surge diverter in the power lines comes in, its not like when the lightining hits point A and travels along to point B it will still have the same amount of power when it reaches Point B, some of it will be reduced/absorb by the lightning arrester and surge diverter and also by the consumer equipment that is connected to the line.

I got in contact with belkin about my ups and they said,, if you got a direct hit, everything will be screwed, as no surge protector can save your stuff. But if a storm is nearby, the ups should protect you from that. How unlucky do you have to be to have a direct hit :eek:

westom · 28 Apr 2011 at 07:10

Phil2008 said:
I got in contact with belkin about my ups and they said,, if you got a direct hit, everything will be screwed, as no surge protector can save your stuff. But if a storm is nearby, the ups should protect you from that. How unlucky do you have to be to have a direct hit

Only useful answer means numbers. A destructive surge occurs typically once every seven years. Those distant (or nearby) surges are made irrelevant by protection already inside every appliance. How often do you replace dimmer switches and bathroom GFCIs due to surge damage?

You have it easy. Your telco connects their switching computer directly to every other building in town. Therefore telcos suffer about 100 surges with each thunderstorm. How often is your town without phone service for four days? Never? Because direct lighting strikes without damage is routine in telco COs, cell phone towers, FM and TV electronics atop the Empire State Building, and munitions dumps. Why did Belkin forget to mention that? They are not selling effective protection. Their protectors do not even claim protection in numbers. Or did a Belkin rep conveniently forget to mention numbers?

If he does not also provide numbers, then suspect a liar.

Did they forget to mention the superior protection already inside appliances? Of course. Belkin is a profit center. Only a surge protector. Not effective protection. Major difference - protector and protection. They hope you never notice.

So where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate when 911 centers suffer direct lightning strikes without damage? Earth ground. Why did your Belkin rep ignore that reality. Belkin is a profit center; not surge protection. Read its spec numbers. How many hundreds of joules? How does that silly little 2 cm part stop what three miles of sky could not? Oh. Direct lightning strikes do not cause failures in airport control towers. Why does Belkin forget to mention that? For the same reason that rep did not provide numbers. You might learn their protector is a $3 power strip with ten cent protector parts selling for an obscene profit at $25.

Best was to promote ‘woe is me’ denials. Instead, learn how direct lightning strikes 100 years ago to telephone switching centers caused no death or damage. The technology is that well proven where real protection solutions are implemented. Belkin is not selling protectors that do not even claim protection.