Upscaling & Fake frames?

[Terminal_Boy]

Thanks, this is all exceedingly educational. There seems to be more acceptance of DLSS for upscaling, than Frame gen, and if I understand correctly that's because the latter impacts input lag, and causes ghosting, etc...

This article seems cautiously positive about improvements coming with this gen:

Hands-on with DLSS 4 on Nvidia's new GeForce RTX 5080

Digital Foundry has the first look at Nvidia's new DLSS 4, as tested on Cyberpunk 2077 RT Overdrive running on a GeForce RTX 5080.

www.eurogamer.net

That is very pretty indeed and makes my CP 2077 look like I’m playing on a PS One.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Thinking about this a bit more and I’m curious; do the people that oppose DLSS / frame gen avoid playing performance demanding games entirely or just play exclusively with lower FPS?

Taking Wukong maxed and native, you only get 20ish fps with a 4090 which is unplayable for most. Even if the 5090 doubled this raw performance grunt and got you to 40ish fps, it would still be pretty terrible.

At which point, BMW would currently be considered by people that demand both ‘outstanding graphics’ and ‘raw performance only’ as an unplayable game…? Or do you use DLSS begrudgingly?

Frame gen or as it should more accurately referred to as Frame smoothing, is not something I would ever turn on. First and foremost it doesn't generate actual frames hence you are not getting the benefits of responsiveness or the latest information that we commonly associate with having more frames.
Secondly I have a VRR monitor hence I believe frame smoothing is pointless above 60FPS and if I am well below 60FPS, then I should be turning down settings to get the increase in real framerate and the associated advantages of that.

Upscaling. The argument for upscaling is that you don't notice the artifacts when playing the game. A totally fair and accurate statement. You also won't notice the visual downgrade from ultra to high or even medium when playing the game. Another totally fair and accurate statement. If I'm at medium or I can see the visual drop in quality when further reducing the game quality settings to achieve a playable framerate (in the region of 45FPS) then I may consider using an upscaler. But if I'm at that point then either i'm running an old GPU or a low tier one. Considering these factors I think it pointless talking about upscalers when purchasing any high end GPU unless you plan on keeping it for multiple generations. However you have no idea what upscalers will look like in the future.

 

[Ephraim]

... Considering these factors I think it pointless talking about upscalers when purchasing any high end GPU unless you plan on keeping it for multiple generations...

This is an interesting point. I didn't think I have any particularly regular upgrade cadence, but looking at my more recent gpu history (HD7970, GTX1080, RTX3080), I do seem to upgrade every couple of generations. I wonder whether a view on the value of these technologies is influenced directly by whether you are upgrading every gen, or looking to sweat assets for a long time, or somewhere in between.

Kinda off topic, but you set me to musing.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

As I understand it, frame gen doesn’t work (correctly) in VR, so it’s bugger all use to me

 

[TrojanWhore]

Video breaking down specs of the cards:

He makes an interesting point about why they are comparing to the launch 4 series and not the super variants (and by extension, that 5070 could end up slower than 4070S using like for like DLSS/FG settings)

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

It's so confusing buying a GPU with all this fsr and dlss, what's wrong with good old raster. Seems all benches are based on the 2 above upscalers.

Or are gpus reaching their max and have to use the upscalers. Point being seeing that 27fps for cyberpunk with RT. If gpus were advancing surely the new gpus would allow that game with RT to be fully playable without need for an upscaler.

Maybe I'm just ro old to get it

 

[loonyk]

It's so confusing buying a GPU with all this fsr and dlss, what's wrong with good old raster. Seems all benches are based on the 2 above upscalers.

Or are gpus reaching their max and have to use the upscalers. Point being seeing that 27fps for cyberpunk with RT. If gpus were advancing surely the new gpus would allow that game with RT to be fully playable without need for an upscaler.

Maybe I'm just ro old to get it

that's probably the issue, it's getting harder and harder to make GPU's faster in rasterization. But same time I think it's wrong to sell upscaling as a performance. It's optimisation or enhancer, but never a performance. And Jensen's blatant lies - that's what winds people up

 

[MCFC_ANDY]

have to agree, i think using an upscaler to say for instance a 5070 as fast as a 4090 is just play silly, and wrong, but i guess gpus are getting harder to eek out more raster performance . i know upscale technology has come a long way, but its like buying a Porsche and find it has the power of a van

 

[mrk]

Upscaling isn't a problem at all, DLSS 3.7+ upscaling is now extremely good and you'd be silly to not use it and every game should be manually updated to it with the preset E enabled. Soon you can do this via NV App directly so that's good news for saving time.

Frame Gen is still the question mark due to the added latency in most games.