Urgh! First wedding assist lol

[An Exception]

So you say it has nothing to do with the camera and then you use the equipment as an excuse for the pictures

Bare direct flash just isn't going to get you pleasing results tbh, however technical quality is only half the equation, as even if you get everything perfect, the image is still going to be a turd if the expression/body language of the subject is terrible.

 

[AHarvey]

So you say it has nothing to do with the camera and then you use the equipment as an excuse for the pictures

Re-read. I said a lot of it has nothing to do with the camera. It's the first wedding he has shot, he will not know about posing for the cake cut etc. (in fact, the main tog should never have allowed the groom to have his arm up over his face like that).

And limiting equipment is also a factor.

I don't ever recall saying that equipment was the only reason he didn't achieve top quality images.

At the end of the day, you've provided NOTHING to this thread other than negativity, nothing of any value or substance.

Please, come back and post some of your amazingly pro like shots when, or if, you ever attend a wedding but I highly doubt that they will be pro like.

Ask any wedding tog, just knowing about lighting, your equipment, composition etc is not enough to get a great shot.

 

[An Exception]

Re-read. I said a lot of it has nothing to do with the camera. It's the first wedding he has shot, he will not know about posing for the cake cut etc. (in fact, the main tog should never have allowed the groom to have his arm up over his face like that).

And limiting equipment is also a factor.

I don't ever recall saying that equipment was the only reason he didn't achieve top quality images.

At the end of the day, you've provided NOTHING to this thread other than negativity, nothing of any value or substance.

Please, come back and post some of your amazingly pro like shots when, or if, you ever attend a wedding but I highly doubt that they will be pro like.

Ask any wedding tog, just knowing about lighting, your equipment, composition etc is not enough to get a great shot.

I'm second shooting a wedding for the first time at the end of this month, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Raymond... I'm coming after YOU!

 

[Raymond Lin]

what setup are you using these days ray, i mainly use two flashes off camera and you results are as always inspiring

2 x 5Dii

Lenses -

Day time - 35L, 85L mostly, the 16-35L, 50/1.4 & 135L when needs be

Formals

24-70 99% of the time for family formals
35L & 85L for the couples shots

When the flashes comes out

On camera - 580EXii x2

off camera (only tried this once)

550EX & 580EX on Pocketwizards TT5s with a 580EXii on the camera using IR assist and providing some bounce light. This is not cheap...flashes and triggers alone is £1.5k ! I actually have 4 flash heads, I have a dead 580EXii which is out of warranty (2009) so I need to get that fixed when i round to it.

I'm second shooting a wedding for the first time at the end of this month, so I guess I'll find out soon enough.

Raymond... I'm coming after YOU!

lol, please do, competition is healthy

p.s. I have never assisted or been a second shooter. I jumped straight in with both feet! Which I do not recommend! They were for friends who had no expectations & I persuaded them to hire a tog for the main part of the day (ceremony and formals) plus I did them for free.

 

[An Exception]

lol, please do, competition is healthy

p.s. I have never assisted or been a second shooter. I jumped straight in with both feet! Which I do not recommend! They were for friends who had no expectations & I persuaded them to hire a tog for the main part of the day (ceremony and formals) plus I did them for free.

Tbh, I'm not sure if my situation is that different, the main tog told me he primarily wants me to go to the grooms house to shoot the groom, then apparently I'm free to shoot as I please after that, guess I'll just try not to get in his way...

 

[bloodline76]

Blah

I never made any great claims that I am a Pro Photographer and probably have less kit than the OP but I would also not big up someones photos for the sake of being nice.

Just because my personal opinions are negative doesn't mean I haven't added anything to the thread. If everyone was polite about the pictures it could lead the OP to running off and purchasing a load of expensive gear and trying his hand at being the main photographer and ruining someones wedding day.

I have been asked to do photos of someones wedding before purely on the basis of owning a nice ish camera at the time. Which I politely refused.

I might have some pictures actually from my own wedding but my computer has died and I am unable to have a look. Check out my threads if you don't believe me and notice the date, which is before my first post on here

Be honest, if those were the best three or four pictures out of 400-1000, would you want him to 2nd you in a job? I don't think anyone can judge a persons ability purely by a few pictures but by posting on here he is requesting peoples personal opinions. He could be fantastic at doing landscapes for all we know but by these pictures I would say he needs to study his subject and surroundings a little more.

 

[Paul11]

i think another thing that made the thread take the direction is has is that the title is "first wedding assist"

if it was "a few picutres i took at a wedding" people might have been a bit more forgiving

but when someone goes as an assisntant or second there is an expectation that they have a certain level of ability already.

 

[SeraphX]

i think another thing that made the thread take the direction is has is that the title is "first wedding assist"

if it was "a few picutres i took at a wedding" people might have been a bit more forgiving

but when someone goes as an assisntant or second there is an expectation that they have a certain level of ability already.

mhmmmm, Yes i was having that very thought this morning lol, too late now though i guess

 

[Paul11]

i wouldnt worry mate, use this as a learning experience.

take the good advice that has been given and the things that you need to go away and learn about, and go learn them

come back in a few months time with some awesome photos and show us

 

[SeraphX]

i have and am doing, even before this little experience, i never had any wild dreams of shooting a wedding on my own, least of all as a proper tog that charged, all this has further concreted the belief in me that my work and creativity needs a tonne of honing especially regarding portraits and general people shots

 

[33L]

Thanks Raymond, In 2012 i am looking at another FF DSLR, i have 2 580II's now but looking at getting a couple of YN560 to help with my off camera work stuff. Cant afford the triggers you have. In terms of lenses maybe the sigma 85mm 1.4 as a go between my canon 1.8 and the 1.2 you have.

 

[An Exception]

Snip...

Cheers Raymond, nice story indeed.

 

[AHarvey]

Just because my personal opinions are negative doesn't mean I haven't added anything to the thread. If everyone was polite about the pictures it could lead the OP to running off and purchasing a load of expensive gear and trying his hand at being the main photographer and ruining someones wedding day.

I might have some pictures actually from my own wedding but my computer has died and I am unable to have a look. Check out my threads if you don't believe me and notice the date, which is before my first post on here

I did check out your posts in the photography section, and other than some dating as far back as 2006 asking for advice on gear I was unable to see any posted images.

My problem is that you fail to see that you can be negative AND polite at the same time. Politeness doesn't go hand in hand with positivity!

You could just as easily of said "Sorry but I don't think they are up to much", and then used your own knowledge to advise them on how to improve the shots in such a way you would like them. Which is something I often do over on TalkPhotography. You can get 10 "nice photo" and then I come along and break it down and suggest on ways of improving it. "Start with what you like, then say what you don't and how to improve. Then finish on a positive!"

Yes it's always harsh to be told that its not as good as you thought, but being told how to make it better is a million times better than telling someone to quit!

It wasn't your negative opinion that got my back up, just the way you put it across! I actually agree that they need work.

And as I've already posted, I would be more than happy to help the OP in anyway I can, and if they make the effort and improve then I would consider taking them on one job so they could show the improvement. Just the same as if you asked for advice on anything (other than your dirty Canon equipment )

 

[Raymond Lin]

Thanks Raymond, In 2012 i am looking at another FF DSLR, i have 2 580II's now but looking at getting a couple of YN560 to help with my off camera work stuff. Cant afford the triggers you have. In terms of lenses maybe the sigma 85mm 1.4 as a go between my canon 1.8 and the 1.2 you have.

I am not that experienced with off camera work, hence I "cheat" with PW as it works in ETTL, and i can also dial in adjustment on camera with the AC3.

I also have the Canon 85/1.8 as well, I bought that last August but still have it, it is now almost as a spare more than anything. It is mint as it had a filter on from day one plus it is not losing value so might as well keep it.

Cheers Raymond, nice story indeed.

Some reason I always thought I had shot 5 before my first paid one, but been racking my brains all night and I really didn't !

As for shooting weddings, the whether you should jump straight into it or assist. I can't tell someone don't jump straight into it as I did so it would be hypocritical of me to say so. What I do say is that if you are doing it for any money whatsoever, do it properly. It is different if you are a guest, there is much less pressure and you can't be sued although you might ruin your friendship...but my point is that if you are doing it properly then...

Do your homework:-

Read a lot wedding forums threads
Look at lots of wedding photos for inspiriations
Ask for advise

Get the right gear:-

2 bodies, 2 flashes, typically lenses to cover the range from ultra wide 16mm to around 100mm, depending on shooting style. You can just get away with the Brick (24-70L) if the venue is nice and big and you can move around in the church. Although when you are starting out, you will need that flexibility so a zoom is best. When you are more experience a prime becomes second nature and you get into position for the shot without thinking.

Fast lens - 2.8 is a must. I get scared when i hear people shoot at F/4....I often shoot at ISO 2000 at F/1.4 with 1/60th on my 5Dii, what kind of ISO & shutter speed someone would use at F/4 ?! I wouldn't want to even imagine. It is why i rejected the 24-105L from the outset when deciding between that at the 24-70. Experience will tell you that there is no substitue for fast glass.

The insurance:-

Theft, professional indemnity and public liability.

The contract:-

I got mine drawn up by a Barrister that specialises in contract law.

Bottomline - Even if you are a weekend warrior, do it like if your life depends on it.

 

[kae2]

Fantastic post by Raymond (wouldn't expect anything less of course!). My business is my second income, but run it as if it was my only income and covered to the hilt for contracts, insurances and equipment.

If you're going to do it, do it properly!

 

[Paul11]

Fast lens - 2.8 is a must. I get scared when i hear people shoot at F/4....I often shoot at ISO 2000 at F/1.4 with 1/60th on my 5Dii, what kind of ISO & shutter speed someone would use at F/4 ?! I wouldn't want to even imagine. It is why i rejected the 24-105L from the outset when deciding between that at the 24-70. Experience will tell you that there is no substitue for fast glass.

.

what if you were using flash though ? you would be fine with F4 then ?

 

[Raymond Lin]

what if you were using flash though ? you would be fine with F4 then ?

The end result of that is your will be using more flash, meaning less ambient lighting/atmosphere, and the battery in your flash will go down quicker.

 

[AHarvey]

Bottomline - Even if you are a weekend warrior, do it like if your life depends on it.

Exactly, no matter what, give 110%. The wedding I did on Sat I even ended up filling and sorting balloons as the groom was running late!

I also totally get your fear when spend that sort of money on equipment. I had 1 wedding booked and blew £7k on gear, so far I've been making enough to pay loan amounts and cover insurance + costs etc.

I've also just started using off camera flash using the Nikon built in system, really need some pocketwizards for the extra range. Quite happy with the results so far, just need more practice

Need to get myself a decent backup camera though, the one i've got is a little ****! And a nice wide angle lens too, 24mm just isn't wide enough some times!

Then it'll be a D800 or D4 for the video, it all adds up

 

[Paul11]

The end result of that is your will be using more flash, meaning less ambient lighting/atmosphere, and the battery in your flash will go down quicker.

why cant you just use slow shutter speeds to keep the ambient light /atmosphere and just use the flash to fill in a bit of light on the subject

 

[Raymond Lin]

why cant you just use slow shutter speeds to keep the ambient light /atmosphere and just use the flash to fill in a bit of light on the subject

People move, so you will get that "drag" effect in the movement. It's fine if that is the look you are going after, but it can also look messy.