USB Dacs better then Highend Soundcards?
- Thread starter R3X
- Start date
Yes IMO for music and anything else but only stereo no 5.1 for your movies. Top end cards can convert and output to say an amp, but not as cleanly as a USB DAC because lack of any noise interference.
I have never regretted the move to DAC's actually it was all the crashing in a game that EA made with on-board Realtek sound pushed me towards a DAC, but I have owned Creative xfi, and auzentech cards. I started with Music Fidelity Vdac now have a Music Fidelity M1. Never had a crash in game since with same sound loop
Another benefit usually not having to install any drivers. The creative Xfis were a headache a few years back. No problem with a DAC only driver this M! had was to allow higher bit rate over USB.
Last edited:
Thanks that is great news to hear, yeah I don't ever listen to 5.1 I prefer stereo sound in movies and music only. At the moment am using onboard sound and enjoying the buzzing and electrical interference at times even when its plugged directly in the soundcard in the back !
So yeah interference and clean and natural sound is what I am aiming for.
Anyone know any £100-200 decent usb dacs with usb for pc and stereo inputs for a 2nd source (sat tv) ?
So yeah interference and clean and natural sound is what I am aiming for.
Anyone know any £100-200 decent usb dacs with usb for pc and stereo inputs for a 2nd source (sat tv) ?
Stereo inputs?
Being a DAC it converts Digital signals only and outputs them as Anologue (stereo) usually via phono plugs. A DAC like Music Fidelity Vdac has USB and optical and you can switch between. So this will allow use of other sources if they have optical out.
The link is for the VdacII. I had the original version before this one. You can find around £100 - £150 mark. It's also worth looking secondhand.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-dacii/
Also recommend you look here and research Vdac's and others. There are lots to choose from.
http://www.head-fi.org/f/7/dedicated-source-components
This is the older Vdac thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/391721/musical-fidelity-v-dac-owners
Forgot to mention remember most Dac;s don't have onboard amplification like sound cards. You will have to output to a stereo amp with phono inputs. So factor this in.
Being a DAC it converts Digital signals only and outputs them as Anologue (stereo) usually via phono plugs. A DAC like Music Fidelity Vdac has USB and optical and you can switch between. So this will allow use of other sources if they have optical out.
The link is for the VdacII. I had the original version before this one. You can find around £100 - £150 mark. It's also worth looking secondhand.
http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/vSeries/v-dacii/
Also recommend you look here and research Vdac's and others. There are lots to choose from.
http://www.head-fi.org/f/7/dedicated-source-components
This is the older Vdac thread.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/391721/musical-fidelity-v-dac-owners
Forgot to mention remember most Dac;s don't have onboard amplification like sound cards. You will have to output to a stereo amp with phono inputs. So factor this in.
Last edited:
Yes IMO for music and anything else but only stereo no 5.1 for your movies. Top end cards can convert and output to say an amp, but not as cleanly as a USB DAC because lack of any noise interference.
I have never regretted the move to DAC's actually it was all the crashing in a game that EA made with on-board Realtek sound pushed me towards a DAC, but I have owned Creative xfi, and auzentech cards. I started with Music Fidelity Vdac now have a Music Fidelity M1. Never had a crash in game since with same sound loop
Another benefit usually not having to install any drivers. The creative Xfis were a headache a few years back. No problem with a DAC only driver this M! had was to allow higher bit rate over USB.
I tend to disagree, not with all though - Creative drivers are indeed pap.
You need to take each case on merit, will a USB DAC always be better than a high end internal sound card? No. Can it be? Yes.
I use a Xonar STX internal card and have zero noise/interference issues. I listen with HD650s and have come from an external DAC/AMP past so am pretty sensitive to both noise and poor sound quality.
Anyone who wants high end audio and runs a FP-Panel cable from an internal sound card to the front of their case for listening is silly, for example. I have not ever, once, found an acceptable FP-Panel Audio connection and persons with listening experience of this will get a pretty bad impression of an internal card.
Each have Pros and Cons. If you are not overly fussed what you go for a USB DAC is both flexible and relatively future proof (Not that PCI-E is going anywhere soon). It's a solid choice just as much as an internal card can be. Which offers the benefit of on-board amplification (model dependant) and one less item in the chain (For simplicities sake).
@Sin_Chase
I also listen via HD650 through a handmade Gordon Welford Headamp. Without the headphones I listen through a Cyrus 1 and Epos ES11 speakers. Perhaps another benefit for me at least I have an easier upgrade path. Rather than change Oamps and such on an internal. I myself have found this my own best solution, but there can be a quite a cost involved to reach this level.
I can swap and change amplification and speakers knowing or at least I have a very good source.
I purchased the Auzentech with it's headphone amp stage when it first came out, and it was not very good at all. So as you say each has it's own merits IMO I prefer the DAC route.
I also listen via HD650 through a handmade Gordon Welford Headamp. Without the headphones I listen through a Cyrus 1 and Epos ES11 speakers. Perhaps another benefit for me at least I have an easier upgrade path. Rather than change Oamps and such on an internal. I myself have found this my own best solution, but there can be a quite a cost involved to reach this level.
I can swap and change amplification and speakers knowing or at least I have a very good source.
I purchased the Auzentech with it's headphone amp stage when it first came out, and it was not very good at all. So as you say each has it's own merits IMO I prefer the DAC route.
Soldato
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 12,205
- Location
- England
thanks interesting different opinions
Issue with myself is I tend to use my K550s with my PC (from back of mobos sound output) and I also have a satelite tv hooked to line in, so I can still listen to sat tv and pc.
I think with usb dacs I cant see any with aux or line in, maybe I need one that acts like an amp ?
My sat box sadly has no digital or optical out
I think with usb dacs I cant see any with aux or line in, maybe I need one that acts like an amp ?
My sat box sadly has no digital or optical out
Purely for headphone use?
If so, if you are looking at an external solution then a couple of headphone amp & usb dac combos that might be worth a look are:
- Schiit's Magni amp & Modi usb dac
or
- Epiphany Accoustics EHP-02 amp & E-DAC usb dac. The EHP-02 has a built-in rechargeable battery which means in a pinch it can double as a portable amp, although battery life is fairly limited and the amp is probably a bit big to be considered truly portable.
- Epiphany EHP-02D which is sameamp & dac as above but stuck into a single case. It's a neater solution but loses the battery and a bit more limited upgrade wise.
The Schiit stack can be bought direct from Schiit's UK distributor Electromod and Epiphany (UK based) sell from their own website and the rainforest company's marketplace.
All come in around the £200 mark and can be used with both a pc (via usb) and an external source such as a satellite box, although you can only listen to a single source at a time and some swapping of cables will be required when swapping between source.
In terms of inputs the Schiit Magni has inputs for stereo rca interconnects whereas the Epiphany amps have an input for a minijack connector.
I agree with Sin Chase's comments re. the STX. It's a very good soundcard and when I had mine I was pretty pleased with the sound quality and interference was not an issue. Certainly if you don't want a lot of desktop clutter and would prefer to stay closer to the bottom end of your budget then I think it'd be a very good choice. The only proviso I'd say is that if you are using Windows 8.1 read up on any potential (not saying there are) driver issues as I know that the 8.1 update mucked up the drivers on some Asus soundcards (DG, DX are currently listed by Microsoft's compatability checker as not supported and plenty of Phoebus owners seem to be having issues).
If so, if you are looking at an external solution then a couple of headphone amp & usb dac combos that might be worth a look are:
- Schiit's Magni amp & Modi usb dac
or
- Epiphany Accoustics EHP-02 amp & E-DAC usb dac. The EHP-02 has a built-in rechargeable battery which means in a pinch it can double as a portable amp, although battery life is fairly limited and the amp is probably a bit big to be considered truly portable.
- Epiphany EHP-02D which is sameamp & dac as above but stuck into a single case. It's a neater solution but loses the battery and a bit more limited upgrade wise.
The Schiit stack can be bought direct from Schiit's UK distributor Electromod and Epiphany (UK based) sell from their own website and the rainforest company's marketplace.
All come in around the £200 mark and can be used with both a pc (via usb) and an external source such as a satellite box, although you can only listen to a single source at a time and some swapping of cables will be required when swapping between source.
In terms of inputs the Schiit Magni has inputs for stereo rca interconnects whereas the Epiphany amps have an input for a minijack connector.
I agree with Sin Chase's comments re. the STX. It's a very good soundcard and when I had mine I was pretty pleased with the sound quality and interference was not an issue. Certainly if you don't want a lot of desktop clutter and would prefer to stay closer to the bottom end of your budget then I think it'd be a very good choice. The only proviso I'd say is that if you are using Windows 8.1 read up on any potential (not saying there are) driver issues as I know that the 8.1 update mucked up the drivers on some Asus soundcards (DG, DX are currently listed by Microsoft's compatability checker as not supported and plenty of Phoebus owners seem to be having issues).
Last edited:
thanks for the details on the headphone amps+dacs
Yeah sounds a bit weird I guess but I really do need a externally 2nd source and only listen via heaphones most of the time.
I am quite impressed with the reviews on the EHP amp+dac
http://www.totallydubbed.net/2013/0...p-o2d-desktop-amp-an-outstanding-amp-and-dac/
Guy mentioned he has never quite heard sound so clean and detailed before, even better then his Asus xonar card in sq and even in BF3 he can hear footsteps and detail much clearer.
£189.99 also I see so not bad for something that could last a long time!
Tough call, depends what your long term plans are.
My personal opinion is that HD650s would be a better initial option and work perfectly with your STX. Not that the 598s would not work with external Amplification/DAC combos just that I feel they might be a little wasted on a 598.
tl;dr - 650s will present a bigger upgrade on an STX than 598s would on external amp/dac.
I own both the 650 and 595 (same drivers as 598) and the the 650s are not only more comfortable (by a long shot) they sound so much nicer.
As with all my suggestions, i'd always go for better headphones/speakers before the amp and source. Work your way back.
The Essence has a damn good amp in it anyway, and the fact that the 595/8s are very easy to drive... go for the 650s.
As with all my suggestions, i'd always go for better headphones/speakers before the amp and source. Work your way back.
The Essence has a damn good amp in it anyway, and the fact that the 595/8s are very easy to drive... go for the 650s.
ok, thanks . i just ordered the HD650 's
Good choice of 'phones. I have a pair of HD600s and they scale up well with better equipment and should you ever get the urge I'd imagine the 650s will too.
The initial impressions I've seen of the Vali is that it's a very good amp for the 600/650 so would be a relatively inexpensive upgrade if you decide you want to dip your toes into tube waters.
The other advantage of the Vali is that the tubes are soldered in so doesn't support tube rolling. Whilst it's great to try different tubes it can be quite an addictive and expensive path to go down
I have the standalone Epiphany dac and amp and like it a lot. I did read that review before buying but I took it with a pinch of salt. Do I think it is a 10/10 combination and has it made my jaw drop? No.
For the money it is about as good a combo as you can buy for the £200 mark though and I found it a decent upgrade coming from an STX. The dac is excellent and for gaming, movies and tv the amp works well. Whilst I can appreciate its sound qualities I find it a bit too neutral for my liking but I do tend to prefer a tube sound, so that's just a personal thing. It is a revealing amp and whilst that can be a good thing is also shows just how bad some recordings are!!
If you are totally against the idea of an internal soundcard then a wildcard option might be the Xonar U7.
The U7 is an external USB soundcard with a built-in headphone amp. I've been playing around with one over the last few days and for the £70ish price it's available for there is a lot to like but the odd weakness too:
Good:
- an Astro Mixamp like desktop box allowing easy control of audio volume & a mic input with its own volume rocker
- good connectivity with a line in, rca outputs (to powered speakers or AV system) and spdif optical out
-many of the benefits that a good internal soundcard offer e.g. 7.1 support, virtual surround and a software suite with the usual EQ adjustments etc.
- dac seems pretty good
- usb powered so no power brick needed
- available for around £70 through a large online retailer (don't think OCUK stock it)
Not so good:
- an internal soundcard like the Xonar DX is cheaper and has a slightly better dac
- the headphone amp is decidely average. More like the one on the budget Xonar DG/DX rather than the STX
As I say the amp is no great shakes but would be capable of running the AKG 550s as they don't need a lot of amping (but like many headphones will sound better with a good amp).
I did hook the U7 up to my Epiphany O2 to see how it compared with the built-in amp and it was a fairly huge step-up in terms of audio quality, which suggests that the amp really is the unit's achilles heel. Playing COD Ghosts with the O2 + U7 combo with the Dolby Home Theater feature enabled is as good a surround sound experience as I've had with headphones on.
For the money I think it's hard to fault the U7 though. Shame about the amp but that's perhaps a combination of Asus wanting to keep costs down and the limitations of usb power.
Last edited:
Yeah, the actual DAC chip makes the big difference. The Sabre ES9023 in the Epiphany Acoustics’ E-DAC sounds brilliant to me, difficult to hear a difference to my ESS Sabre32 9018 powered M-DAC that I use in the front room.