USB Dacs better then Highend Soundcards?

I can see this hobby getting expensive real quick :)

Just got my HD650, now im thinking of upgrading my amp, currently on xonar essence STX sound card

thinking of a Schiit modi/magni or a Epiphany Acoustics 02/dac combo

or a Little dot mk III

would either of these be a noticeable improvement over the STX ?
 
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thx jellofund for your input, I have never owned a dac or headphone amp so am not sure how it would sound. How would you describe the tube sound compared to say the EHP amp+dac kit ?

I like my sound clean and hiss/interferance free and detailed and large sound stage these would be used with AKG 550s, sounds like that EHP kit will do wonders but your tube feelings peeked my interest, perhaps it sounds more natural and laid back ?

Regarding Senns I borrowed my mates HD595 back in the day when he got them for 99 from richer, and the open sound really does sound much detailed and better then closed headphones but for night listening my closed AKG 550s are best, may end up getting some Senns in the future and HD650s sound good:)
 
Amp just arrived, such a massive difference :)

just ordered myself a DAC too

for anyone considering DAC/AMP combo vs a sound card, no contest !
 
Sin_Chase said:
I hope you did not do that back to back comparison whilst the HD650s were still bedding in :p
Click to expand...

i did, but the difference is instant and very apparent

which leave me just to conclude that it will only get better as they bed in :)
 
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Paul11 said:
i did, but the difference is instant and very apparent

which leave me just to conclude that it will only get better as they bed in :)
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity can you clarify.

Sounds better or just different. AMPs will change the sound HUGELY from model to model. Is your LittleDot Solid-state or Tube?

Remember, Different != Better/Worse.
 
Sin_Chase said:
Out of curiosity can you clarify.

Sounds better or just different. AMPs will change the sound HUGELY from model to model. Is your LittleDot Solid-state or Tube?

Remember, Different != Better/Worse.
Click to expand...


well, different but in a better way ! :)

the amp is tube

the sound just opened up and insturments became seperated and evertying has more clarity

i had the feeling of something not being right without putting my finger on what it was, and as soon as i plugged the amp in that feeling went

(i had the same feeling with the 598s and now realise it was the amp, but now i have the 650s there is no going back, had them on all night and love the sound )
 
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R3X said:
thx jellofund for your input, I have never owned a dac or headphone amp so am not sure how it would sound. How would you describe the tube sound compared to say the EHP amp+dac kit ?

I like my sound clean and hiss/interferance free and detailed and large sound stage these would be used with AKG 550s, sounds like that EHP kit will do wonders but your tube feelings peeked my interest, perhaps it sounds more natural and laid back ?
Click to expand...

Sorry for not replying sooner (been a busy couple of days!).

The tube amp I own (Schiit Lyr) is a tube / solid state hybrid which offers some of the advantages of a solid state amp whilst retaining the 'flavour' of the tubes used.

I know people talk about a tube sound but that's a bit of a generalisation imho as I've found that whilst some tubes do sound 'tubey', some others can actually sound quite solid state like. If you want a detailed neutral sound there are tubes that will do that for you, if you prefer warmth and a treble, mid or bass emphasis there'll no doubt be a tube that will fit the bill.

To my ears the differences between a tube and solid state sound are:

Tube
- a tendency to sound slightly warm and instruments have a nice tonality to them
- more laid back and smooth sounding
- a bit more 'analogue' sounding (vinyl vs cd)
- not always the last word in detail and with some tubes the sound can be a but 'muddled'
- a wider soundstage and the sound seems fuller with more 'body' to it
- tube amps can have a high noise floor with some headphones (some hiss or hum can be evident in quiet passages of music or between tracks)
- sound characteristics can change a bit whilst tubes burn in or how warmed up they are so slightly less 'consistency' in the presentation
- tubes can suffer from microphonics which in some cases can mean a ringing sound during listening. Sometimes barely noticeable but when it's bad it can be like a bout of tinnitus!


Solid state
- consistent and dependable presentation
- a more neutral and accurate sound. Perhaps a bit dry and lacking the 'romance' of tubes
- more detailed sounding
- a bit thinner sounding and lacking the fullness of tubes
- a narrower soundstage
- with an amp like the O2 the amp has a 'black' background, so if you crank up the volume when no music is playing there will be no hiss, crackling or distortion
- slightly harsher at higher volumes

I am generalising though and a lot of this is highly subjective (others may disagree with some of these points), so please take with a pinch of salt!
 
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Paul11 said:
Amp just arrived, such a massive difference :)

just ordered myself a DAC too

for anyone considering DAC/AMP combo vs a sound card, no contest !
Click to expand...

I love my little dot mk3, the tubes make a difference too. Luckily the ones that came with mine were some of the very top rated ones on headfi :)

The analogue cable used from DAC to amp will also change the sound signature :o I managed to get a cheap 2nd hand Chord Chameleon Silver Plus and the change was so apparent I put it in my speaker system instead!
 
BassPunk said:
I love my little dot mk3, the tubes make a difference too. Luckily the ones that came with mine were some of the very top rated ones on headfi :)

The analogue cable used from DAC to amp will also change the sound signature :o I managed to get a cheap 2nd hand Chord Chameleon Silver Plus and the change was so apparent I put it in my speaker system instead!
Click to expand...


i have about 6 different pairs of tubes that came with mine :)

you mean the RCA lead ? i have an older high quality lead from my old hifi for now, which i hope should be ok.

DAC just arrived, plugging it in tonight
 
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I'll most likely be putting my Xonar STX (with upgraded OpAmps) on MM soon for anyone interested. Picking up the NAD D 3020 later today and will be using its USB DAC connection on the PC. Interesting to see how it differs.
 
mrk said:
I'll most likely be putting my Xonar STX (with upgraded OpAmps) on MM soon for anyone interested. Picking up the NAD D 3020 later today and will be using its USB DAC connection on the PC. Interesting to see how it differs.
Click to expand...

I was looking at this the other day myself and am interested to hear how it sounds. Short of me arranging an audition I would like to know your thoughts on how it compares to your STX

Let us know how it sounds pls :)
 
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Sevenoaks didn't have long enough USB cables when I bought this today so I'm connected to the STX with the same RCA interconnect as on the C325Bee and already I am noticing better soundstage, it is more live and there's a lower noise floor from what I can tell. high string instruments are more prominent and vocals stand out a bit better too. I was surprised by this as the D 3020 has no tone controls and this is how it's sounding out of the box with the exact same cables as on the old amp.

I'll order a USB cable and when it arrives compare using that connection but initial impressions are very impressive.

Bluetooth streaming sounds no different to the wired RCA connection, very detailed and very lively. Apt-x is working wonders here.
 
jellofund said:
Sorry for not replying sooner (been a busy couple of days!).

The tube amp I own (Schiit Lyr) is a tube / solid state hybrid which offers some of the advantages of a solid state amp whilst retaining the 'flavour' of the tubes used.

I know people talk about a tube sound but that's a bit of a generalisation imho as I've found that whilst some tubes do sound 'tubey', some others can actually sound quite solid state like. If you want a detailed neutral sound there are tubes that will do that for you, if you prefer warmth and a treble, mid or bass emphasis there'll no doubt be a tube that will fit the bill.

To my ears the differences between a tube and solid state sound are:

Tube
- a tendency to sound slightly warm and instruments have a nice tonality to them
- more laid back and smooth sounding
- a bit more 'analogue' sounding (vinyl vs cd)
- not always the last word in detail and with some tubes the sound can be a but 'muddled'
- a wider soundstage and the sound seems fuller with more 'body' to it
- tube amps can have a high noise floor with some headphones (some hiss or hum can be evident in quiet passages of music or between tracks)
- sound characteristics can change a bit whilst tubes burn in or how warmed up they are so slightly less 'consistency' in the presentation
- tubes can suffer from microphonics which in some cases can mean a ringing sound during listening. Sometimes barely noticeable but when it's bad it can be like a bout of tinnitus!


Solid state
- consistent and dependable presentation
- a more neutral and accurate sound. Perhaps a bit dry and lacking the 'romance' of tubes
- more detailed sounding
- a bit thinner sounding and lacking the fullness of tubes
- a narrower soundstage
- with an amp like the O2 the amp has a 'black' background, so if you crank up the volume when no music is playing there will be no hiss, crackling or distortion
- slightly harsher at higher volumes

I am generalising though and a lot of this is highly subjective (others may disagree with some of these points), so please take with a pinch of salt!
Click to expand...

thx for the breakdown and review, had no idea of the different type of amps and dacs going.

Sounds like this is going to turn into one expensive hobby lol
 
mrk said:
Sevenoaks didn't have long enough USB cables when I bought this today so I'm connected to the STX with the same RCA interconnect as on the C325Bee and already I am noticing better soundstage, it is more live and there's a lower noise floor from what I can tell. high string instruments are more prominent and vocals stand out a bit better too. I was surprised by this as the D 3020 has no tone controls and this is how it's sounding out of the box with the exact same cables as on the old amp.

I'll order a USB cable and when it arrives compare using that connection but initial impressions are very impressive.

Bluetooth streaming sounds no different to the wired RCA connection, very detailed and very lively. Apt-x is working wonders here.
Click to expand...

Looks awesome and stereo inputs but @ £400 it makes my wallet faint !
 
With inflation in mind the original 3020 would be even more expensive today, keep that in mind hehe :p

I've found a spare USB A-B cable, it's a Dell printer one but will suffice until a quality one (shielded) arrives tomorrow.I don't believe a higher priced cables makes a bit of difference to sound when it comes to a digital connection. The only difference physically being that it's shielded and better constructed so will last longer and have less affect from interference or jitters.

I tested with this printer cable and there is an audible difference. The ambient noise levels are non existent and the sound is cleaner with more clarity flicking between RCA and USB on the fly. I notice that the volume level in Windows now does nothing for the USB output, it's at a fixed level which I imagine is by design since the NAD is pulling the data stream rather than it being pushed from the PC to the DAC. Really impressed with the quality, so neutral and the right balance of bass and treble.

This is most definitely a long term investment. Almost all the other equipment I have except the Tannoy V4 will be upgraded over the years but the speakers and this amp I cannot see needing an upgrade for several years at least, I'm finding the quality that impressive!

Also it looks so damn good :D

yDJCtDJ.jpg


v8v9rfL.jpg
 
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I am green with envy, I love NAD equipment. I bought the original 3020 about 30 years ago and it's still going strong. :)
 
The one thing I will have to get used to is no more relays clicking when turning on and off and switching inputs - That mechanical sound as things came to life are no longer there!

But yeah, NAD stuff does sound great :)
 
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