Use of BSc, BA, etc

Mulder · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:34

The value of a degree comes down to two things; where you got your degree and the subject you studied. It's not as simple as saying "degrees are worthless" or that they're valuable.

A degree in Maths from a top 10 university shows a thorough education, determination and relative intelligence. A degree in media from TVU does not.

Gaverick · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:36

Might as well put

Gaverick, ASBO

Probably a lot more rare than a degree these days

Jokester · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:36

Only place I've ever used it was in my CV, I've seen it used by a couple of people in their email signatures and as mentioned before it just makes you look a tool, though I guess it would depend on the industry you work in.

Jokester MEng (Hons) MInstMC MIET

encephalopathy · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:37

bit embarrassing
mine are

FCEM MRCS (Eng) MB BCh Ba0

thats what 14yrs of university/postgraduate exams gets me.....

Azagoth · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:46

I've used them before, but only on business cards.

Az, BSc (Hons), HND

[TW]Fox · 2 Jul 2007 at 14:51

dirtydog said:
I mean pretty much anyone from a point of view of intelligence

As you have never undertaken degree level study, how do you know this? Is your view based on the portrayal of degree students in the media and on forums like this?

Blackstar · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:08

I think if it is on a CV or business card it's ok or in a business context is alright. Slapping it everywhere is silly and makes you look like a prat.

I'm doing a degree in a subject that i don't want to continue into a job. I'm doing the degree because I'm really enjoying it and am "gaining skills" that can be applied in the future.

dirtydog · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:16

[TW]Fox said:
As you have never undertaken degree level study, how do you know this? Is your view based on the portrayal of degree students in the media and on forums like this?

It is based on those things plus my experience of meeting and working with graduates in real life.

Take this random post from a few minutes ago...

dbappa said:
Pretty sure i read some where what their disputing over is 12% (or some rather low figure) and Jordan has a big chunk!

from...

dbappa
Wise Guy
dbappa's Avatar

Joined: Oct 2002
Location: Keele Uni & Surrey (Home)
Posts: 4,603

their? 'some where' rather than somewhere? It would be poor for junior school children to make those errors. And that's supposed to be educated?

[TW]Fox · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:18

Whilst I dislike poor grammar as much as you do it isn't a very good indicator of general intelligence - especially as a degree is awarded after demonstration of detailed knowledge of the subject of the degree, not the quality of the students written English.

Plus, that chap doesn't have a degree, he is studying for one. It's possible he may not pass..

dirtydog · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:23

[TW]Fox said:
Whilst I dislike poor grammar as much as you do it isn't a very good indicator of general intelligence - especially as a degree is awarded after demonstration of detailed knowledge of the subject of the degree, not the quality of the students written English.

Being intelligent and being educated are two different things. A person can be one, both or neither.

Plus, that chap doesn't have a degree, he is studying for one. It's possible he may not pass..

True, although to me it would beg the question how someone with such a dire grasp of the basics of his own language would be allowed to join university in the first place. Also there are a number of graduates on this forum whose English is equally bad or even far worse. How can that be possible?

Starfall · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:24

Only on job applications

Starfall - MEng(Hons), MIET

[TW]Fox · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:29

dirtydog said:
Being intelligent and being educated are two different things. A person can be one, both or neither.

Generally, they go hand in hand. You can't be well educated if you are as thick as two short planks.

True, although to me it would beg the question how someone with such a dire grasp of the basics of his own language would be allowed to join university in the first place. Also there are a number of graduates on this forum whose English is equally bad or even far worse. How can that be possible?

It is quite easily possible - quality of written English in the context of informal discussion over the internet is not assessed as part of the admissions process of, to my knowledge, any University in this country. Entry is granted based on the accumulation of UCAS Points, which you get for passing A and AS level exams at a secondary school level.

Crap grammar on the internet is generally a sign of laziness and a lack of respect for the medium they are posting in, rather than a lack of intelligence of education on the part of the poster.

If your judge of whether 'anyone can get a degree' is mostly based on the standard of grammar on internet forums, then I think it says a lot for the validity of your opinion.

Uni is NOT a free ride. Many see it as being a dead easy, free ride, where you spend your entire time getting drunk and having a laugh. These people fail their degrees, or they drop out before the end. The few that do pass fall into two categories - those who are incredibly gifted and can thus get a decent mark with little effort, and those who scrape through with a rubbish mark.

Generally speaking, anyone cannot get a degree. Many think anyone can, and many try, but compare admissions against graduate acheiving a 2.1 or higher and I think you'll find the figures are very different.

dirtydog · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:33

[TW]Fox said:
Generally, they go hand in hand. You can't be well educated if you are as thick as two short planks.

Yet you can be intelligent and have few or no formal qualifications

Crap grammar on the internet is generally a sign of laziness and a lack of respect for the medium they are posting in, rather than a lack of intelligence of education on the part of the poster.

I disagree. If someone repeatedly makes elementary errors then it can reasonably be assumed that their English is poor.

Generally speaking, anyone cannot get a degree. Many think anyone can, and many try, but compare admissions against graduate acheiving a 2.1 or higher and I think you'll find the figures are very different.

I said "pretty much anyone" can get a degree. Note the "pretty much" which you seem to keep conveniently ignoring

[TW]Fox · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:40

dirtydog said:
Yet you can be intelligent and have few or no formal qualifications

Thats entirely true but not really related to your claim that 'pretty much anyone' can get a degree.

I disagree. If someone repeatedly makes elementary errors then it can reasonably be assumed that their English is poor.

In your opinion. I've received emails on a professional basis with crap grammar to rival the best on this forum with no capitalisaiton, incorrect word usage, and suchlike. They were sent from people with whom you are left with no doubt that they are incredibly intelligent when you have a spoken conversation with them.

They just - rightly or wrongly, subconciously or otherwise, appear to put little to no effort into typed communication.

I said "pretty much anyone" can get a degree. Note the "pretty much" which you seem to keep conveniently ignoring

Same sort of thing really - I still disagree thats its the case.

Chrisss · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:43

dirtydog said:
If someone repeatedly makes elementary errors then it can reasonably be assumed that their English is poor.

No it doesn't...

Rich_L · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:43

dirtydog said:
True, although to me it would beg the question how someone with such a dire grasp of the basics of his own language would be allowed to join university in the first place. Also there are a number of graduates on this forum whose English is equally bad or even far worse. How can that be possible?

I suspect that is more a reflection that the value you place on perfect spelling and grammar is abnormally high compared to the general populace, educated, intelligent or otherwise.

In my experience of people in your classic 'professional' environments (lawyers, accountants, bankers and suchlike) conveying a message in a concise and understandable manner is far more important than ensuring that spelling and grammar are perfect - any document which needs polishing will be double and triple-checked by several people anyway to amend any minor errors. And that's not even going into the professions which involve high levels of mathematical ability and programming disciplines where perfect spelling & grammar has even less relevance.

In your opinion. I've received emails on a professional basis with crap grammar to rival the best on this forum with no capitalisaiton, incorrect word usage, and suchlike.

Yup, happens all the time - when you're dealing with lots of different matters under an intense time pressure as long as the meaning is accurately conveyed (where context is far more important), then perfect spelling and grammar simply isn't required

Throw in as well that many typical professional roles usually utilise dictation and secretaries/typists and the relevance of perfect spelling/grammar becomes even less.

CF93 · 2 Jul 2007 at 15:50

I've never, ever, used the letters after my name, not even on my CV or business cards.

What's the point? No-one knows or cares either way in the day-to-day world, and on a CV you have your education shown anyway.

PikeyPriest · 2 Jul 2007 at 16:12

I think anything apart from for your CV, research work...etc is stupid.

*****, Bsc (Hons), [MBBS] (Hopefully in 2 years)

IceBus · 2 Jul 2007 at 16:14

[TW]Fox said:
Generally, they go hand in hand. You can't be well educated if you are as thick as two short planks.

It is quite easily possible - quality of written English in the context of informal discussion over the internet is not assessed as part of the admissions process of, to my knowledge, any University in this country. Entry is granted based on the accumulation of UCAS Points, which you get for passing A and AS level exams at a secondary school level.

Crap grammar on the internet is generally a sign of laziness and a lack of respect for the medium they are posting in, rather than a lack of intelligence of education on the part of the poster.

If your judge of whether 'anyone can get a degree' is mostly based on the standard of grammar on internet forums, then I think it says a lot for the validity of your opinion.

Uni is NOT a free ride. Many see it as being a dead easy, free ride, where you spend your entire time getting drunk and having a laugh. These people fail their degrees, or they drop out before the end. The few that do pass fall into two categories - those who are incredibly gifted and can thus get a decent mark with little effort, and those who scrape through with a rubbish mark.

Generally speaking, anyone cannot get a degree. Many think anyone can, and many try, but compare admissions against graduate acheiving a 2.1 or higher and I think you'll find the figures are very different.

You can be well educated and extremely stupid - born out by some of the idiots at my university who went to Eton. They're barely treading water in the shallow end of the gene pool yet have gone to a school reknowned for its educational pedigree. On the other hand, some of the most well-spoken, considered and intelligent people I've ever met haven't gone to university so you can very easily be one without the other.

Maybe it's because I've worked with print media but I tend to judge people on how they use the written and spoken word. I know in a lot of circumstances communications don't need to be perfectly parsed and checked but I feel that any written work I produce should give the best impression possible as it'll affect their impression of me.

What does sadden me is that a lot of people with poor grammar will graduate with a 2.1 - which to me is unacceptable. Call me an intellectual snob, but I expect basic standards of the use of language, mathematics and general knowledge from anyone graduating from university.

aayzof · 2 Jul 2007 at 16:16