Used Market

[bfar]

Just had an interesting week looking for a new seat.

It's a bit mad out there. I was a bit disillusioned with the new stuff available. Gaming chairs are fine for the younger crowd, I think, but wouldn't work for me. Maybe I'm wrong, but those Chinese ergonomic things from the likes of Hbada and Sihoo seem flimsy, flappy and fussy for my liking. YouTube is rammed with dodgy reviews of these things. Brand new chairs from high end outfits like HM, Humanscale etc are just ridiculously expensive.

So I went out into the used market and found some really interesting stuff. Definitely a bit of a minefield these days. The old HM Aeron classic was of obvious interest, but that model, having been around a long time now, is a minefield. Professional refurbishers were looking for too much money imo, and the private market is saturated with ancient chairs in poor condition, damaged casters, rips in the mesh, or too many scratches on the frame, that kind of thing. Some outright gross stuff out there.

I found a couple of Stealcase Leap v2s in very good working order, but the bright red cushioning was a little too worn or grimey. I also saw a Aeron remastered, but you'll pay a good bit more for those, £520 for a used fully loaded one in fair condition was the best I could find.

In the end I found a fully loaded Herman Miller Mirra 2 Butterfly in near new condition for £340. It's a proper throne! Very happy with it.

How's everyone else getting on in the used market?

 

[Gray2233]

There's actually some really good refurbs/ex office stuff out there for dirt cheap from the likes of Herman Miller.

I've bought that sort of thing in the past and know a few others who have, most of the time the chair turns up like new. I couldn't advise as to the exact places to buy but they're not too difficult to look up and verify, might be against forum policy as they do sell desk/office type chairs.

If going the Chinese route they can be very hit and miss, but Sihoo often gets recommended and is well regarded.

 

[Deleted member 280263]

It always seems like a total minefield to me and on the private seller side they're usually selling it for a reason and dishonest.
I'm going for this soon, the lumber support claims seem to be legit and it apparently works very well, we shall see!

ThunderX3 CORE Fabric Gaming Chair - Dark Grey

Order ThunderX3 CORE Fabric Gaming Chair - Dark Grey now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

Everything I've red about HM, seems to be they try their hardest to not refund you, and the hype is false and built up by sponsored Youtubers, the same apparently applies to Secret Lab - no better than any other brand and look to be mostly the same parts, when they fail the customer service goes out of their way to not accept a return or refund and charges you for the postage, and because at this point you haven't kept the massive box/packaging, they critacise that too and use it as an excuse to claim it arrived damaged in transit and void the warranty.

 

[bfar]

It always seems like a total minefield to me and on the private seller side they're usually selling it for a reason and dishonest.
I'm going for this soon, the lumber support claims seem to be legit and it apparently works very well, we shall see!

ThunderX3 CORE Fabric Gaming Chair - Dark Grey

Order ThunderX3 CORE Fabric Gaming Chair - Dark Grey now online and benefit from fast delivery.

www.overclockers.co.uk

Everything I've red about HM, seems to be they try their hardest to not refund you, and the hype is false and built up by sponsored Youtubers, the same apparently applies to Secret Lab - no better than any other brand and look to be mostly the same parts, when they fail the customer service goes out of their way to not accept a return or refund and charges you for the postage, and because at this point you haven't kept the massive box/packaging, they critacise that too and use it as an excuse to claim it arrived damaged in transit and void the warranty.

Looks class, good luck with it!

There's a degree of hype around the HMs, but there's no denying they make excellent hard wearing ergonomic chairs. I'd recommend you try one of you can! The experience I had on the second hand market in my locality wasn't particularly easy, but I did find a great chair eventually.

I'm not in the UK, so perhaps there's more choice available to you guys?

 

[Deleted member 280263]

Looks class, good luck with it!

There's a degree of hype around the HMs, but there's no denying they make excellent hard wearing ergonomic chairs. I'd recommend you try one of you can! The experience I had on the second hand market in my locality wasn't particularly easy, but I did find a great chair eventually.

I'm not in the UK, so perhaps there's more choice available to you guys?

Thanks mate!

Yeah there definitely is, I think they're very overpriced for some plastic that will break just like anything else. It's absolutely insane to charge 1-2K for that, it's not like it's a premium materials seat in a sports car.
I would definitely try one to see if they live up to the hype, but I don't think it'd ever live up to the price haha!

 

[Haggisman]

I dunno, the HM chairs are very well engineered and well made; they come with a 12 year warranty, but will quite easily outlast that. I have an 18 year old Celle (one of the lower end models), and it's built like a tank, everything still works perfectly, the only thing which is worn out is the seat cushion (which I have since replaced). It cost me £50 2nd hand about 7 years ago. Since I've been using it instead of the cheap & nasty office chairs at work, the lower back pain i was getting has pretty much gone.

In contrast, before that I've had several cheap chairs, bought new, ranging from <£100 to ~£250, and they've invariably broken with a 12-18 months, so yes, while the HM ones may be expensive, £1k over 12 years(probably longer) vs £100+ every couple of years for 12 years, the HM comes ahead (and I don't have a sore back the whole time).

It's a perfect example of "boots theory".

I spend 8 hours a day in my chair whilst working, plus several more hours a few days a week gaming; for me it's a no-brainer to go for the better chair, even if it does cost a lot more up front - there's probably a middle ground somewhere, but I've sat in an Aeron (albeit for only 10 minutes in John Lewis) and my god was it the most comfortable thing I've ever sat in! I'd have no hesitation spending £1k on one when my current one breaks (if that ever happens )

As far as the OP goes, yes, the 2nd hand market is a bit strange. When a brand new "gaming" (basically fully loaded in black) Aeron is ~£1k a few times a year when they're on sale, it's a tough decision vs £600+ for a used one in decent condition with no warranty

 

[Deleted member 280263]

I dunno, the HM chairs are very well engineered and well made; they come with a 12 year warranty, but will quite easily outlast that. I have an 18 year old Celle (one of the lower end models), and it's built like a tank, everything still works perfectly, the only thing which is worn out is the seat cushion (which I have since replaced). It cost me £50 2nd hand about 7 years ago. Since I've been using it instead of the cheap & nasty office chairs at work, the lower back pain i was getting has pretty much gone.

In contrast, before that I've had several cheap chairs, bought new, ranging from <£100 to ~£250, and they've invariably broken with a 12-18 months, so yes, while the HM ones may be expensive, £1k over 12 years(probably longer) vs £100+ every couple of years for 12 years, the HM comes ahead (and I don't have a sore back the whole time).

It's a perfect example of "boots theory".

I spend 8 hours a day in my chair whilst working, plus several more hours a few days a week gaming; for me it's a no-brainer to go for the better chair, even if it does cost a lot more up front - there's probably a middle ground somewhere, but I've sat in an Aeron (albeit for only 10 minutes in John Lewis) and my god was it the most comfortable thing I've ever sat in! I'd have no hesitation spending £1k on one when my current one breaks (if that ever happens )

As far as the OP goes, yes, the 2nd hand market is a bit strange. When a brand new "gaming" (basically fully loaded in black) Aeron is ~£1k a few times a year when they're on sale, it's a tough decision vs £600+ for a used one in decent condition with no warranty

Hmm, they look very cheap overpriced plasticy too me, nothing screams expensive materials, it just looks like scene tax scalping over pricing.

Most good chairs have a 5-6 year warranty, and are a quarter of the price, those Secret Labs for example, so you could buy 20 years worth of chairs for the same price

To be fair, your experience for a used one seems great and obviously for that kind of money, I would have course take the chance! But people seem to sell them secondhand often for £400-600, which there is no way i'm ever going to pay for a secondhand item with zero warranty!

Funnily enough I have had many secondhand cheap IKEA chairs, often for free, and the only faults I've ever had are the arms hurting my elbows or getting a dead butt cheek on some of them, they are rubbish chairs don't get me wrong, but they did the job. They do eventually wear out all the awful PU fake leather, but that happens with anything, other than that it was just the usual replacing of the pistons every year or 2 - but I used cheap ones so that was only £12 a year if I had to change one.

The best chair I ever had was something random that I must have had for around 15 years from Staples or Office World? Or some random supplier of that nature, I bought it online for around £85 it yeah, 15 years later one day something snapped and I went flying but it did me very well until then haha!
Nothing like that exists now though, it's all junk from China that you can find on auction sites, then resold in shops at a higher price, it's very annoying. £100-200 should easily buy you a decent office style chair, but now you can't even find anything like it.

I totally get what you're saying though, it's an investment, but they are ripping us off regardless of quality. Because they know they can, we both know that car costs maybe £50 to produce in China.

 

[Haggisman]

Hmm, they look very cheap overpriced plasticy too me, nothing screams expensive materials, it just looks like scene tax scalping over pricing.

Have you actually seen/sat in one in person? Like I said, mine is built like a tank, it's difficult to actually lift on my own! The same was true about the Aeron I tried.

Most good chairs have a 5-6 year warranty, and are a quarter of the price, those Secret Labs for example, so you could buy 20 years worth of chairs for the same price

Secretlabs are ~£500, so that's 10 years, or about on par with HM (actually they only come with a 3 year warranty, you only get the extra 2 years by posting a picture on social media, which totally doesn't ring alarm bells!).

I also value my back, and would much rather have a chair which is built primarily for ergonomics to cater for people sitting in it for 8+ hours, than one built for the "gamer" aesthetic to look good on camera and appeal to "influencers".

It's a bit bizarre that you decry HM for being hyped up by YouTubers, whilst simultaneously recommending a chair which looks like it was designed for exactly that (backed up by the whole "share for warranty" shenanigans).

The Aeron has been around since 1994, 10 years before YouTube itself appeared, and certainly long before "influencers" were even a concept. It's won multiple awards and is even a permanent fixture in the New York museum of modern art.

I'm not saying they aren't overpriced (most things are these days) but "cheap and plasticky" they are definitely not.

To be fair, your experience for a used one seems great and obviously for that kind of money, I would have course take the chance! But people seem to sell them secondhand often for £400-600, which there is no way i'm ever going to pay for a secondhand item with zero warranty!

Agreed, at that price I'd just get a new one, £2-300 would be a more realistic price for me to consider it depending on condition.

Funnily enough I have had many secondhand cheap IKEA chairs, often for free, and the only faults I've ever had are the arms hurting my elbows or getting a dead butt cheek on some of them, they are rubbish chairs don't get me wrong, but they did the job.

That's fine when you're young and flexible, or only using it a few hours a day, but when you get old and decrepit like me, you start to feel it

They do eventually wear out all the awful PU fake leather, but that happens with anything, other than that it was just the usual replacing of the pistons every year or 2 - but I used cheap ones so that was only £12 a year if I had to change one.

You say "the usual", as if replacing a fundamental part every 2 years is something which should be expected? My chair is still on it's original piston after 18 years.

The best chair I ever had was something random that I must have had for around 15 years from Staples or Office World? Or some random supplier of that nature, I bought it online for around £85 it yeah, 15 years later one day something snapped and I went flying but it did me very well until then haha!

How's your back?

Like I said, you can get away with "cheap and nasty" chairs when you're young, I did for many years, but started to really feel it in my early 30s, got really bad lower back pain, as soon as I changed chair that went away.

Any idiot can knock together something you can sit on (I'm sure even I (with no experience in furniture design) could knock together a design in a few days)). Designing something comfortable that isn't going to ruin your posture and also not fall apart after a few months on the other hand...

Nothing like that exists now though, it's all junk from China that you can find on auction sites, then resold in shops at a higher price, it's very annoying. £100-200 should easily buy you a decent office style chair, but now you can't even find anything like it.

£85 15 years ago is £130 now, and I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation to cover R&D, tooling, materials, factory staff & other overheads, shipping & storage (chairs take up a lot of space so are expensive to ship and store), even if they are mass produced in China. Corners need to be cut somewhere, i.e. quality of materials/manufacture, or design (i.e. take an existing generic design and change the colour/fabric/add a curve to one of the arms (which makes it significantly less comfortable, but it's not longer infringing the original design, so who cares right?)

I totally get what you're saying though, it's an investment, but they are ripping us off regardless of quality. Because they know they can, we both know that car costs maybe £50 to produce in China.

Well, by that logic anything we buy is a rip-off, they need to make a profit somehow or they would fail as a business

Whether they are "worth" £1k I don't know, (well I guess they are "worth" whatever someone will pay for them, so yes, since plenty of people are happy to pay that), but they are certainly "worth" more than the standard cheap generic type office chairs you get from most places.

 

[Deleted member 280263]

Have you actually seen/sat in one in person? Like I said, mine is built like a tank, it's difficult to actually lift on my own! The same was true about the Aeron I tried.



Secretlabs are ~£500, so that's 10 years, or about on par with HM (actually they only come with a 3 year warranty, you only get the extra 2 years by posting a picture on social media, which totally doesn't ring alarm bells!).

I also value my back, and would much rather have a chair which is built primarily for ergonomics to cater for people sitting in it for 8+ hours, than one built for the "gamer" aesthetic to look good on camera and appeal to "influencers".

It's a bit bizarre that you decry HM for being hyped up by YouTubers, whilst simultaneously recommending a chair which looks like it was designed for exactly that (backed up by the whole "share for warranty" shenanigans).

The Aeron has been around since 1994, 10 years before YouTube itself appeared, and certainly long before "influencers" were even a concept. It's won multiple awards and is even a permanent fixture in the New York museum of modern art.

I'm not saying they aren't overpriced (most things are these days) but "cheap and plasticky" they are definitely not.

Agreed, at that price I'd just get a new one, £2-300 would be a more realistic price for me to consider it depending on condition.

That's fine when you're young and flexible, or only using it a few hours a day, but when you get old and decrepit like me, you start to feel it

You say "the usual", as if replacing a fundamental part every 2 years is something which should be expected? My chair is still on it's original piston after 18 years.

How's your back?

Like I said, you can get away with "cheap and nasty" chairs when you're young, I did for many years, but started to really feel it in my early 30s, got really bad lower back pain, as soon as I changed chair that went away.

Any idiot can knock together something you can sit on (I'm sure even I (with no experience in furniture design) could knock together a design in a few days)). Designing something comfortable that isn't going to ruin your posture and also not fall apart after a few months on the other hand...

£85 15 years ago is £130 now, and I'm not sure that's a realistic expectation to cover R&D, tooling, materials, factory staff & other overheads, shipping & storage (chairs take up a lot of space so are expensive to ship and store), even if they are mass produced in China. Corners need to be cut somewhere, i.e. quality of materials/manufacture, or design (i.e. take an existing generic design and change the colour/fabric/add a curve to one of the arms (which makes it significantly less comfortable, but it's not longer infringing the original design, so who cares right?)

Well, by that logic anything we buy is a rip-off, they need to make a profit somehow or they would fail as a business

Whether they are "worth" £1k I don't know, (well I guess they are "worth" whatever someone will pay for them, so yes, since plenty of people are happy to pay that), but they are certainly "worth" more than the standard cheap generic type office chairs you get from most places.

Sorry if I confused you and didn't word previous comments very well, I totally get where you're coming from.

Regarding trying one, unfortunately not, I am more than whiling to try one, but there's no hiding the fact that it's just cheaply knocked out in China/India out of cheap plastic and sold at a rip off price.
Yeah sorry, I meant the 2K expensive ones = 4 Secret Labs.

I don't think it's bizarre at all, because that is textbook for Youtubers to lie and be paid off/sponsored/have a gagging order. It has been exposed time and time again.

For £2-300 I totally agree. But new, no chance.

Which chair did you think I recommended? Secret Lab? Nope, I merely mentioned them because they also are overhyped and apparently aren't very good/are the same parts as cheaper chairs, and as I also mentioned above, have nightmare customer service that does everything it can to avoid refunding you or offering a replacement then blame it on you not packaging it up properly - of which you have to do at your cost and to return it, they supply nothing. I would never buy their chair.

However that Thunder chair I linked, has a proper lumber support and many adjustments and I haven't seen 1 person say it hurt them after 8+ hours or wanted to return it...

My back has taken a beating from years of various sports and accidents/motorsport stuff, so yes, my back is important, I'm yet to have ever got pain from a decent bucket style seat, be it in a car or a PC chair, however I have had pain from cheap crap ones, or even known brands. So I'm not biased. But I have driven like 8+ hours for example in bucket seats in a track prepared car with very stiff suspension and bushings etc and never had an issue, however I've been on long journeys with supposidly comfy stock seats that have hurt me, and I'm one of those people that gets a dead butt cheek/leg from many desk chairs/car seats, so I'm not immune to it and quite highly sensitive to it.

Age related inflation is 1 thing, but ripping someone off because it's put on a niche pedestal, is another. Expensive bucket seats for cars like Recaros/Bride etc never went to ridiculous inflation like PC chairs, and I know which one has more R&D and experience behind it, I had a Corsair that was literally an Audi RS Wingback seat, Corsair got Recaro to help design/make it, and those seats cost like £5-8 grand new, yet the Corsair seat was £350-450... So it can be done without scene tax.

I'd personally trust my back a lot more with a seat made by people that make seats for motorsport and road cars along with the safety and development, versus some niche brand that's touted by a minority of mostly snobs - not saying you, but you cant deny, 99.9% of HM owners wouldn't dare to call one out as rubbish after they've spent an embarassing amount of money on it new, because they're now in the HM clout forum club, and seem to thrive on discussing how it's the best thing since oxygen.
I really dislike that side effect of the brand.

As I say not mocking you, I've no doubt at the prices they are, that they must be comfy and not mess your back up, but I have red a few horror stories from people that have been honest, then had awful customer service and ended up not being honoured a refund/return/replacement, just like with Secret Labs. So it's a no from me. I'll just buy 4 £500 chairs, 1 every 5 years

Yes I agree, nearly everything is a rip off, it's just a matter of how many times that rip off is multiplied in greed profit, for me I wont give in when they take the mick to that level, it's just scalping, and the more we give in, the higher up it goes.

 

[hyperseven]

Sorry if I confused you and didn't word previous comments very well, I totally get where you're coming from.

Regarding trying one, unfortunately not, I am more than whiling to try one, but there's no hiding the fact that it's just cheaply knocked out in China/India out of cheap plastic and sold at a rip off price.
Yeah sorry, I meant the 2K expensive ones = 4 Secret Labs.

I don't think it's bizarre at all, because that is textbook for Youtubers to lie and be paid off/sponsored/have a gagging order. It has been exposed time and time again.

For £2-300 I totally agree. But new, no chance.

Which chair did you think I recommended? Secret Lab? Nope, I merely mentioned them because they also are overhyped and apparently aren't very good/are the same parts as cheaper chairs, and as I also mentioned above, have nightmare customer service that does everything it can to avoid refunding you or offering a replacement then blame it on you not packaging it up properly - of which you have to do at your cost and to return it, they supply nothing. I would never buy their chair.

However that Thunder chair I linked, has a proper lumber support and many adjustments and I haven't seen 1 person say it hurt them after 8+ hours or wanted to return it...

My back has taken a beating from years of various sports and accidents/motorsport stuff, so yes, my back is important, I'm yet to have ever got pain from a decent bucket style seat, be it in a car or a PC chair, however I have had pain from cheap crap ones, or even known brands. So I'm not biased. But I have driven like 8+ hours for example in bucket seats in a track prepared car with very stiff suspension and bushings etc and never had an issue, however I've been on long journeys with supposidly comfy stock seats that have hurt me, and I'm one of those people that gets a dead butt cheek/leg from many desk chairs/car seats, so I'm not immune to it and quite highly sensitive to it.

Age related inflation is 1 thing, but ripping someone off because it's put on a niche pedestal, is another. Expensive bucket seats for cars like Recaros/Bride etc never went to ridiculous inflation like PC chairs, and I know which one has more R&D and experience behind it, I had a Corsair that was literally an Audi RS Wingback seat, Corsair got Recaro to help design/make it, and those seats cost like £5-8 grand new, yet the Corsair seat was £350-450... So it can be done without scene tax.

I'd personally trust my back a lot more with a seat made by people that make seats for motorsport and road cars along with the safety and development, versus some niche brand that's touted by a minority of mostly snobs - not saying you, but you cant deny, 99.9% of HM owners wouldn't dare to call one out as rubbish after they've spent an embarassing amount of money on it new, because they're now in the HM clout forum club, and seem to thrive on discussing how it's the best thing since oxygen.
I really dislike that side effect of the brand.

As I say not mocking you, I've no doubt at the prices they are, that they must be comfy and not mess your back up, but I have red a few horror stories from people that have been honest, then had awful customer service and ended up not being honoured a refund/return/replacement, just like with Secret Labs. So it's a no from me. I'll just buy 4 £500 chairs, 1 every 5 years

Yes I agree, nearly everything is a rip off, it's just a matter of how many times that rip off is multiplied in greed profit, for me I wont give in when they take the mick to that level, it's just scalping, and the more we give in, the higher up it goes.

 

[Deleted member 280263]

3:18am? No wonder you were confused Sunday night session was it

 

[Haggisman]

niche brand

HM are one of the biggest furniture manufacturers in the world...

You keep mentioning how they sponsor Youtubers and that's the only reason they're popular, conveniently ignoring where I pointed out that the chair was released and became extremely popular 10 years before Youtube even existed.

You also keep bringing up motorsport/car seats as if they're the pinnacle of seating technology, and somehow better suited for an office environment than an actual office chair. The whole point of those seats is to keep you in one place rather than sliding around around the car (along with protection in the event of a collision). I don't know about you, but I don't tend to experience many G-forces and high-speed collisions when I'm sat at my desk (maybe I need some more RGB lighting?). They are built for completely different purposes.

I'll just buy 4 £500 chairs, 1 every 5 years

So... pay more long term for likely a worse product? That makes no sense at all

 

[hyperseven]

3:18am? No wonder you were confused Sunday night session was it

no

 

[Deleted member 280263]

HM are one of the biggest furniture manufacturers in the world...

You keep mentioning how they sponsor Youtubers and that's the only reason they're popular, conveniently ignoring where I pointed out that the chair was released and became extremely popular 10 years before Youtube even existed.

You also keep bringing up motorsport/car seats as if they're the pinnacle of seating technology, and somehow better suited for an office environment than an actual office chair. The whole point of those seats is to keep you in one place rather than sliding around around the car (along with protection in the event of a collision). I don't know about you, but I don't tend to experience many G-forces and high-speed collisions when I'm sat at my desk (maybe I need some more RGB lighting?). They are built for completely different purposes.



So... pay more long term for likely a worse product? That makes no sense at all

Oh I wasn't claiming that was the only reason they're popular... I just mean the overhyped internet/forum side is clearly influenced by it.

Sorry, I genuinely miss the bit about 10 years pre youtube, my bad!

Motorsport seats are the pinnacle of seats? Think what they do, literally save your life in a ridiculously dangerous situation at crazy speeds/impacts/G-force/crashes, all whilst being extremely supportive and comfortable, even for endurance races... Every other chair, is literally just a chair to sit in? As you said, they don't have to do anything more, so yes clearly motorsport seats are a way higher tier and better design, as they do more than just sit you at a desk, so if anyone is going to know about how to make a proper seat, and it be comfortable for 8-24hour stints, and support you and not make you a long term cripple, it's something made for motorsport or high end OEM road cars.

I didn't say paying more, I just said you could buy more for the same money of a cheaper chair when if and when they fail, which then equals many many years of warranty per chair when totalled up.

 

[Haggisman]

Oh I wasn't claiming that was the only reason they're popular... I just mean the overhyped internet/forum side is clearly influenced by it.

Sorry, I genuinely miss the bit about 10 years pre youtube, my bad!

Motorsport seats are the pinnacle of seats? Think what they do, literally save your life in a ridiculously dangerous situation at crazy speeds/impacts/G-force/crashes, all whilst being extremely supportive and comfortable, even for endurance races... Every other chair, is literally just a chair to sit in? As you said, they don't have to do anything more, so yes clearly motorsport seats are a way higher tier and better design, as they do more than just sit you at a desk, so if anyone is going to know about how to make a proper seat, and it be comfortable for 8-24hour stints, and support you and not make you a long term cripple, it's something made for motorsport or high end OEM road cars.

Not better, designed for different purposes. That's like saying a Ferrari is better than a Focus Estate. Sure it is, if you want to go round a track. Try sticking 4 kids and a dog in one, with a boot full of camping stuff and a surfboard on the roof!

I didn't say paying more, I just said you could buy more for the same money of a cheaper chair when if and when they fail, which then equals many many years of warranty per chair when totalled up.

4 x £500 Secretlabs = £2000, for 12 years warranty (20 if you jump through the social media hoops).
2 x £1000 HM/Steelcase = £2000, for a better chair and 24 years warranty out of the box.

IIRC 24 is more than 20

 

[Deleted member 280263]

Not better, designed for different purposes. That's like saying a Ferrari is better than a Focus Estate. Sure it is, if you want to go round a track. Try sticking 4 kids and a dog in one, with a boot full of camping stuff and a surfboard on the roof!

4 x £500 Secretlabs = £2000, for 12 years warranty (20 if you jump through the social media hoops).
2 x £1000 HM/Steelcase = £2000, for a better chair and 24 years warranty out of the box.

IIRC 24 is more than 20

That's not really the comparison I'm making though is it, a Recaro comes in many OEM road cars, be it family fast wagons like Audi RS3/4/6, BMW M cars, etc etc, and they're all capable of doing any job you can think of and also make the rear seats often too, so there is literally 0 compromise.
Even fixed bucket seats are still practical and suitable for 8 hour drives. Also FYI, the Focus ST/RS seats are made by Recarotoo
Pretty much every decent OEM car seat ever is made by Recaro, you just may not realise due to thinking they all have to look motorsport'ish
If it was a seat that hurt your back after anything more than a short drive, and cause damage be it short or long term, didn't allow the rest of the car to function/took up more room somehow, then your comparison would make sense. But in this case, it's like the Ferrari is the RS6/M3 touring, so does everything the Focus Estate does, just faster, more comfortably, safer, and better

As I said before, I would never buy a Secret Lab, that was just a quick example of something that is devisable by 4/ versus the 2K specific HM, so it was an easy comparison to something the quarter of that price, but as you know many other brands offer similiar lengthy warranties that the SL does

I also have mainly been making these points based on the £2K HM's, and before have agreed with you that a £1-2K HM for £2-300 used is something I would definitely consider

Anyways, I wasn't at all saying your lying or wanting to come across as trolling, I just think it is a LOT of money, regardless of warranty. It's one of the most inflated prices compared to anything else that I've seen, and it seems to be because of the fact nobody says no, so it becomes like scalping and they just keep ripping people off because they know that they'll pay it, just like with GPU's

It just would be nice to find an alternative for normal expensive seat money, I.E. the £350-500 mark, and see HM do something with the featureset/comfort of a 1-2K HM, at a £500 price point with say a 5-6 year warranty?

 

[Haggisman]

Anyways, I wasn't at all saying your lying or wanting to come across as trolling, I just think it is a LOT of money, regardless of warranty. It's one of the most inflated prices compared to anything else that I've seen, and it seems to be because of the fact nobody says no, so it becomes like scalping and they just keep ripping people off because they know that they'll pay it, just like with GPU's

Oh yeah, it's definitely a lot of money, I just don't know if it's "inflated" as such.

It just would be nice to find an alternative for normal expensive seat money, I.E. the £350-500 mark, and see HM do something with the featureset/comfort of a 1-2K HM, at a £500 price point with say a 5-6 year warranty?

But then why would they do that? There are plenty of other brands which cater for that midrange, HM (and similar)'s whole point is that they cater for the ultra-premium high end office chair market. They do have some cheaper options, but from everything I've seen about them, they aren't a match for their top end stuff (which may very well be intentional due to not wanting to outcompete themselves!)

 

[Deleted member 280263]

Oh yeah, it's definitely a lot of money, I just don't know if it's "inflated" as such.

But then why would they do that? There are plenty of other brands which cater for that midrange, HM (and similar)'s whole point is that they cater for the ultra-premium high end office chair market. They do have some cheaper options, but from everything I've seen about them, they aren't a match for their top end stuff (which may very well be intentional due to not wanting to outcompete themselves!)

Yep!
Well the £1K one isn't in some ways as it's twice the warranty of something like a SL, so fair enough I guess on that one

But when it's 4 times the amount of a 'top tier brand' chair (I still don't like SL but you get what I'm saying they are expensive, and considerable more than other brands), that is inflation in my eyes, as they clearly can make a very good chair for £1K, so where is double that price going exactly? Are they holding back on using better materials - it appears not, can you really tell the difference between a £1K and £2K chair when as you say the £1K chair is very supportive and comfy...

There must come a point where you can't tell if it's any comfier when they're that good at a grand? I think it starts to become a placebo at £2K? I reckon a blind test without pricing, no one would say one is better than the other comfort and support wise?

They'd do that because they'd make a killing have an entry level item that was attainable to a different market, and thus in the future those people might consider upgrading to the £1K models.

 

[Azrael1]

Not going to lie - I would love a HM Aeron but I only spend a couple of hours max in a chair a day ! Been looking at other gaming chairs. My last DX Racer Chair gave me 7 years of trouble free fun but leather cracked and flaking like mad. It was only £200 B grade from OCUK. That I consider value for money !

 

[Deleted member 280263]

Not going to lie - I would love a HM Aeron but I only spend a couple of hours max in a chair a day ! Been looking at other gaming chairs. My last DX Racer Chair gave me 7 years of trouble free fun but leather cracked and flaking like mad. It was only £200 B grade from OCUK. That I consider value for money !

You did very well out of that!
I cannot stand leather or PU leather, as you say it flakes like mad and goes everywhere and you find it on your clothes and floor often haha, along with the sweaty/sticky weld your legs and back to them factor, my next chair will definitely be material