VGA Vs Component?

Nismo · 10 May 2007 at 07:32

Even before the update, VGA was always better for me. Gives a much sharper image.

oweneades · 10 May 2007 at 07:56

Scort said:
I find Test Drive Unlimited looks far far better on VGA; component just looks dark and has less vibrant colours, regarless of what I set on m HDTV, I also notice a lot more jaggies with component too

I have yet to try component with any other games, so it'll be interesting to see if they look better.....

Scort.

Agreed with TDU, its the only game I have noticed a marked improvement when running VGA over component although I have yet to test it on my new tv due to my VGA lead dying.

However from previous testing RB6:V looks terrible on my 19" sammy tv through VGA, just a blurred mess (which is odd considering the improvement shown on TDU)

But generally as already said its down to personal preference.

Abooie · 10 May 2007 at 08:36

NokkonWud said:
I have always preferred Component over VGA, certainly on the Toshiba 32WLT66, but I'm gonna wait for scmshaw to give his full report on it as I really can't be bothered tbh.

Well the verdicts in and VGA is now definately better with this TV than component.

Here's a long explanation of what's happening.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7216

A long-standing complaint of the VGA output on the Xbox 360 is its “washed out” picture quality, where colors on the screen would not appear as bright and vibrant as compared to running the console to the TV using component cables.

The culprit for this problem is the difference between how HDTV and PC displays interpret black levels. A correctly calibrated HDTV typically expects a black level to be at 7.5 IRE (with anything below that to be “blacker than black”), while a PC display has its black set to zero. The Xbox 360, which is tweaked for televisions, has its IRE tuned for the HDTV norm of 7.5 IRE.

However, due to the fact that most HDTVs manufacturers expect that VGA inputs are for use with PCs rather than the Xbox 360, most televisions have its IRE for VGA at zero to accommodate a PC video card’s output. The result of this is that while the Xbox 360 is sending out a 7.5 IRE for calling for black, the HDTV is interpreting that as a call for something less than black, like a pleasant shade of grey.

The Spring Update adds a new feature allowing users to tweak the IRE setting that the Xbox 360 sends out to the television. “Both Xbox 360 Elite and current Xbox 360 units will have a spring (console) update which adds support for different video levels for VGA output (“7.5 IRE vs 0”) ... using this setting you should be able to use computer monitors in addition to TVs with resolutions all the way up to 1080p with high fidelity and no issues with HDCP handshaking,” explained Amir Majidimehr, VP of Microsoft’s Consumer Media Technology Group. “So for current users, I highly recommend trying this update with your VGA connection to see if it does the job for you. Note that this is a console update and will work for both games and of course, HD DVD.”

Surprisingly, instead of giving the user direct control of the IRE setting, the Spring Update added three non-descriptive options to the Xbox 360 display settings – standard, intermediate and expanded – with no indication of which setting represents what level of blackness. DailyTech decided to put each of the three levels to the test. Presented in the images to the right is a comparison of each of the three reference levels using Need for Speed Carbon as the test game and King Kong as the test HD DVD. “Standard” appears to retain the same black level setting (7.5 IRE) as it was before the update, and the “expanded” setting looks to present the blackest blacks (0 IRE), with the “intermediate” setting being somewhere in between.

While the increased richness and color in Need for Speed Carbon is noticeable, the more appreciable difference of the new IRE settings comes when watching movies. In all parts of King Kong, but especially the dark scenes where accurate black levels are essential, the new “expanded” reference level produced images that were far richer and less washed out, providing a significantly improved picture.

I find that colours are now as good as Component but there's a real bonus with sharpness. The picture seems very crisp and clear and upscaled DVDs look superb.

However you have to remember this is with me looking very hard for a picture improvement. Over Component it still looked extremely good. If you have a VGA cable switch else imo just don't worry about it.

Kreeeee · 10 May 2007 at 08:57

Cannaton said:
^^ That is true on most TVs, the LG Line of LCDs however produce much more vivid colours over VGA, this is due to the white balance features (RGB: DTV rather than RGBC) im not sure if the samsungs have this or not?

But yeah, im always torn between the two, but the upscaling of DVDs make the vga the winner for me...

No they don't ( <3 my LG ) but the new reference level feature on the XBox dash provides very similar results.

Kreeeee · 10 May 2007 at 09:05

smcshaw said:
Well the verdicts in and VGA is now definately better with this TV than component.

Here's a long explanation of what's happening.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7216

I find that colours are now as good as Component but there's a real bonus with sharpness. The picture seems very crisp and clear and upscaled DVDs look superb.

However you have to remember this is with me looking very hard for a picture improvement. Over Component it still looked extremely good. If you have a VGA cable switch else imo just don't worry about it.

Same here. At a quick glance it's not noticeable but I'm chuffed that I don't need to get an elite to get decent picture quality now

NokkonWud · 10 May 2007 at 09:20

Scmshaw, are you using the Official VGA or a 3rd-Party model?

TheDean · 10 May 2007 at 09:28

It's been widely said that you should get the official one - the other ones just aren't as good and it shows.

Cannaton · 10 May 2007 at 10:03

Wow, just tried this new update on my LG 32LC2D and the improvement is fantastic. As kree has mentioned himself, i dont think i feel the urge to buy into HDMI now when the elite comes along now.

Abooie · 10 May 2007 at 11:39

NokkonWud said:
Scmshaw, are you using the Official VGA or a 3rd-Party model?

Official.

Kreeeee · 10 May 2007 at 11:44

Cannaton said:
Wow, just tried this new update on my LG 32LC2D and the improvement is fantastic. As kree has mentioned himself, i dont think i feel the urge to buy into HDMI now when the elite comes along now.

Were you using DTV mode before the update though?

If not try:

set 360 to 1280*720
on TV, go to inputs and press right on the remote
et voila DTV mode

I find the new reference levels are a little less vibrant than DTV but are far more realistic on DVDs and the blacks are truely black whilst giving far more black detail than component for nearly blacks. I also can run my 360 at 1360*768 with 1:1 mapping (no overscan) which is fantastic

Sirrel Squirrel · 10 May 2007 at 11:48

Component is rubbish on my Dell 2407 but VGA is superb, VGA should be better for DVDs as they are upscaled to whatever res you are using over vga and the upscaler in the 360 is very good.

Bonjour · 10 May 2007 at 12:17

The VGA is definately better on my LG, which I believe has 1:1 pixel mapping.

Cannaton · 10 May 2007 at 12:47

Kreeeee said:
Were you using DTV mode before the update though?

If not try:

set 360 to 1280*720
on TV, go to inputs and press right on the remote
et voila DTV mode

I find the new reference levels are a little less vibrant than DTV but are far more realistic on DVDs and the blacks are truely black whilst giving far more black detail than component for nearly blacks. I also can run my 360 at 1360*768 with 1:1 mapping (no overscan) which is fantastic

Was I!? I was the one who told you how to do it

But yeah i was, the image is still more vibrant on DTV, but i prefer the added sharpness and 1:1 mapping of RGB

C mode now, im a happy bunny ( <3 my LG too)

By the way, what settings are you using regarding Contrast and Brightness? Cheers

Geffen · 10 May 2007 at 12:54

Can't we just have a poll as a sticky on this subject, as every few weeks this debate breaks out.

Also we all know HDMI offers the best image quality.

NokkonWud · 10 May 2007 at 13:09

Not if you don't have HDMI...

Wyrdo · 10 May 2007 at 14:26

Post 2 in this thread pretty much gives you the right answer and is what I've said from the beginning

Now it's even better.

Abooie · 10 May 2007 at 16:28

NokkonWud said:
Scmshaw, are you using the Official VGA or a 3rd-Party model?

Whoaaaaa.

Can't believe I didn't spot it until I played the Forza demo but VGA at 1360x768 gives massive overscan on the Toshiba TV. (Left side gets cut off).

Having read up at AVforums it seems it's a well known problem with no real solution other than to switch to 1280 x 1024.

Now I've been trying to work out if this really matters and what is the 'highest quality' signal to send to the TV.

Now the Toshiba has 1366 x 768 pixels so on paper a 1360x768 VGA signal would be best. But 1280x1024 (1280x768 gives overscan as well) when compared to 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920×1080 but interlaced) still comes off favourably.

Anyway, I still think the picture looks just sharper (than Component) and I'm still getting upscaled DVD.

Also, I don't think the jaggies in Forza are quite as bad now (they've gone from "deal breaker" to "pretty irritating")

Andy298 · 10 May 2007 at 17:03

smcshaw said:
Whoaaaaa.

Can't believe I didn't spot it until I played the Forza demo but VGA at 1360x768 gives massive overscan on the Toshiba TV. (Left side gets cut off).

Having read up at AVforums it seems it's a well known problem with no real solution other than to switch to 1280 x 1024.

Now I've been trying to work out if this really matters and what is the 'highest quality' signal to send to the TV.

Now the Toshiba has 1366 x 768 pixels so on paper a 1360x768 VGA signal would be best. But 1280x1024 (1080x768 gives overscan as well) when compared to 720p (1280x720) and 1080i (1920×1080 but interlaced) still comes off favourably.

Anyway, I still think the picture looks just sharper (over Component) and I'm still getting upscaled DVD.

Also, I don't think the jaggies in Forza are quite as bad now (they've gone from "deal breaker" to "pretty irritating")

Dude, I get this in every game when using VGA cable on that set. Only way round it for me is to use the 1280x1024 res set to widescreen on both the TV and 360.

NokkonWud · 10 May 2007 at 17:27

I only have the joytech cable, if I have any time later/tomorrow I think I'll try it on both the Toshiba and on the Dell 2405 and see what happens.

Andybtsn · 10 May 2007 at 18:25

NokkonWud said:
I only have the joytech cable, if I have any time later/tomorrow I think I'll try it on both the Toshiba and on the Dell 2405 and see what happens.

I also have Joytech one, would appreciate it if you could report back with what you think difference wise, if its 'all that' I may have to use VGA too.