Vista 32-bit VS 64-bit

[supercowthe3rd]

Hi Chaps, just joined the forum and have the following scenario before installing windows onto an upgraded PC:

My current PC is currently running windows Vista Ultimate 32-bit. Which seems to work fine with all my apps’ System spec is:
P4 3.2 800FSB
Asrock P4V88 Mobo
2GB DDR400
ATI 9800 Pro 128MB AGP
80GB IDE system drive
200GB SATA Raid 1 (Mirrored) data drives.

I’m waiting for some new parts to arrive so I can completely rebuild my PC some of the parts are as follows: (Ordered from OCuk of course)
Intel core 2 Duo E6600
Asus P5N32-E Plus SLi Mobo
Corsair 2GB DDR2 XMS2 PC-6400C4
BFG Geforce 8800 GTS 320MB PCI-Ex
Enermax Galaxy 1000W PSU
2 x 500GB SATAII Barracuda drives for Raid 1 Data Drive (Mirrored)
250GB SATAII Barracuda system drive
with existing Aopen and LG DVD-RW DL drives and Thermaltake Xaser III Case.

My quandary is this; considering the following applications that I plan to run on the new system should I install the 64-bit version or stick with the known 32-bit version.

Norton Internet Security 2007
Adobe Acrobat Pro 8
Macromedia 8
Nero 7 Ultimate 7.5.9.0
PhotoShop CS2
DivX 6.5.1
Daemon Tools 4.08
DVD Shrink 3.2
Nokia PC Suite 6.82
WinZip 11
Xara Webstyle 4
Office 2007

My plan is to dual boot with XP for games until better drivers and DirectX10 is sorted so only interested in application support under 64-Bit environment.
If anyone has had experience on the above mentioned App’s then advice and guidance will be appreciated.

 

[Tute]

I'd have a search around the forums, there have been many threads on this, too many to list.

The general consensus seems to be that it's worthwhile going 64-bit. The only drawback is drivers, which you're going to have a problem with on 32-bit anyway.

 

[BillytheImpaler]

Yep, go with 64-bit. In order to get certification for drivers from MS, vendors must submit BOTH 32 and 64-bit versions for testing. This means that 64-bit drivers will be a-plenty.

 

[bledd]

just dont install norton, its crap

 

[handy_789]

office 2007 works great but drivers for my hp printer that come with vista are pants. no hp drivers exist for my printer (old)

acrobat 8 workes fine. but had a problem initially making the printer drivers work with with 2007. had to re-install acrobat but works ok now

photoshop cs2 works fine

daemon tools can be downloaded from their website as a 64 bit version that works great except that yo ucannot stop it from autostarting in the menu. had to do it via control panel uner start up programs.

nero 7 works great, but as usual is total bloatware, so i only installed the burning part

norton is th ebiggest pile of poo ever created. would'nt instal it even if i had it

i uninstalled the latest version of divx pro as its not fully vista compatable

oh yes, macromedia flash is not supported on 64 bit explorer fo rweb surfing. 32 bit explorer is fine and comes with vista 64bit.

Cheers

 

[v0n]

I can't see why anyone would want to go 64bit unless they absolutely need to use more than 4Gb of memory or have programs that can utilize 64bit and large memory addressing. XP 64bit is out for a while and is just as useless today for typical user as it was the day it came out.

 

[Gaverick]

The 64 bit version has many more security features such as patchguard and mandatory driver signing which the 32 bit version doesn't have

 

[csmager]

I can't see why anyone would want to go 64bit unless they absolutely need to use more than 4Gb of memory or have programs that can utilize 64bit and large memory addressing. XP 64bit is out for a while and is just as useless today for typical user as it was the day it came out.

The point is Vista is set to change this.

The next generation of games will have 64 bit versions, and these give around 15% performance increases per thread compared to x86.

 

[v0n]

I wish it happened too, but let's face it - why would presence of 64bit Vista on the market make any more difference than presence of 64bit XP last time. Processors were available, OS was available, developers ignored it, just like they ignored HT and multiprocessors and many other possible optimizations before it. Another problem with 64bit will be that any kind of advantage of memory adressing will be completely wrecked by lame drivers until Microsoft decides to reboot the world with minimum specs, like they did with math co-processor in Win95 - unless they scrap 32bit all together 64bit will be just a test platform, the extra stuff added in game patch for kicks.... So far there is no indication whatsoever that 64bit will be anything more than waste of money for extra license. It's not like developers or even hardware manufacturers embraced it...

 

[modo77]

For one the next version of windows is going to be 64bit only. MS has already stated that Vista is the last 32bit os. Things will change in regards to 64bit games. Its heading that way now slowly. Its the way forward, I mean why did we dump 16bit and lower os's.

 

[csmager]

I wish it happened too, but let's face it - why would presence of 64bit Vista on the market make any more difference than presence of 64bit XP last time. Processors were available, OS was available, developers ignored it, just like they ignored HT and multiprocessors and many other possible optimizations before it. Another problem with 64bit will be that any kind of advantage of memory adressing will be completely wrecked by lame drivers until Microsoft decides to reboot the world with minimum specs, like they did with math co-processor in Win95 - unless they scrap 32bit all together 64bit will be just a test platform, the extra stuff added in game patch for kicks.... So far there is no indication whatsoever that 64bit will be anything more than waste of money for extra license. It's not like developers or even hardware manufacturers embraced it...

XP 64 was more of a test.

Vista is pushing - Games and software are being developed for x86, buying Retail Vista gets you both x86 and x64. New PCs will start to come with it installed. The effective 3Gb RAM limit (after BIOS/Windows takes its addressing cut) for gaming is going to get in the way soon enough.

Vista WHQL certification requires that the manufacturer produce both an x86 and x64 driver, so drivers aren't going to be a problem anymore.

 

[v0n]

why did we dump 16bit and lower os's.

Because it couldn't multitask, 16bit processing was effectively linear. 64bit processing is nowhere near as revolutionary as jumping from 16bits to 32. Large database tables will run faster in memory, huge data handled in memory will be faster, but it's not going to shake the world. The moment 8Gb of memory is standard set up on your round the mill mid range dell and games start fetching 4Gb of maps on the fly we talk about about Vista 64 making sense. But at the moment there is no indication game makers will give a flying monkey about it. Most of the games aren't even properly optimized for dual cores, let alone novelties. We are talking 5 years minimum to change that. That's all I'm saying.

buying Retail Vista gets you both x86 and x64. New PCs will start to come with it installed.

That's the thing - they won't. You know it won't happen, because no one ever ships retail Windows with prebuilts and they won't ship x64 OS because 32bit is guaranteed to work with everything. I hope I'm wrong about it, but there is simply not enough going for 64bit from regular user perspective, it will be OS for architects and database servers, but a constant hussle with everyday programs and drivers will render it just another XP 64 for everyone else, even if it offers marginal (and that's what it will be) advantage for gamers - extra details, more sprites etc... It's not going to make games twice faster, it's not going to make programs twice faster, but sure as hell it will make thousands of programs throw tantrums all over the place. Until there is only one OS and every coder is focused strictly to make it work.

 

[Gaverick]

If we don't start to implement this now, when should we start? I say we may as well start now, because advancement in technology is good and there is no point delaying the propagation of new technology when it is available to have now

 

[supercowthe3rd]

Thanks for the Infos guys, however we're getting a little off thread here.

Gaming aside, as mentioned in my original post won't be an issue as I'll be dual booting XP purely for gaming. Handy 789, thanks for your input, thats exactly what I'm after.

What I'm trying to establish is I've got the option to go 64-bit, if i'm not going to see a major benefit from 32-bit right this minute then thats fine, but if running 64 isn't going to cause me probs either then it makes sense to save myself the hastle of rebuilding windows later or how do you's see it?

Anyone else been using the apps i mentioned under Vista 64-bit?

Thanks again chaps!

 

[v0n]

If we don't start to implement this now, when should we start?

As an end user you shoudl start implementing it when it's ready. And it's not. If it was done properly there would be no driver hiccups, no software issues, it would just work in 32 bit mode and ignore all the rest. This doesn't seem to be the case atm. Despited months of betas and RC's everything is all over the place and in complete mess. Yes, some developers, like Valve took it seriously, moved forward, sat down and wrote some code. But the real world software - from decoders through all the freeware and stuff you use every day - to catch up, catch on and actually start writing stuff specifically optimized, something that will produce real life advantage over 32bit - it will take years. And you sitting there tapping with your nails on the table impatiently won't make it any faster.

 

[gareth170]

well has i see it is buy 32bit OS for now because it will be another 2 or 3 years till 64bit OS really kicks in... theres not many 64bits apps out. i know 32bit apps work on the 64bit OS but that uses more memory, yes 64bit OS is faster but some 32bit apps won't run on it...

 

[Elevon]

I was impressed with drivers available for my PC and 32 bit software compatibility on my Vista x64 HP,if you have 99% of 64 bit drivers for your PC then go 64 bit,really no point going for 32 bit version unless you have a lot of 16 bit software you need to run or driver problems,I can say I now have all drivers for my Vista x64, took less then a month for companies to release all the drivers I needed,great support,a lot better then XP 64 bit IMHO.

Vista x64 is the future and way to go if you have the compatibility.

 

[Guinny]

I can't see why anyone would want to go 64bit unless they absolutely need to use more than 4Gb of memory or have programs that can utilize 64bit and large memory addressing. XP 64bit is out for a while and is just as useless today for typical user as it was the day it came out.

I agree and have tried both....verdict -VIsta 32 works great no problems and nice OS.
Vista 64, not a single benefit at present(unless you need 4gb Ram), no software, slow games, poor drivers and compatability issues.

I rest my case!

 

[v0n]

Compatibility is not the same as native mode. What you effectively get is potentially fast OS that runs in safe software environment mode. This is nothing new. 64bit machines are made now for what - second decade running? Almost every single OS, but windows was down that route once before - anyone from Sun, SGI, DEC, through pinguin guys been there, done it, threw few millions at it, took a snapshot and returned to the basics.

I think this quote sums it up perfectly, it comes from This article on Start64 website

"It can be rationally recognized and mathematically proven that 64-bit systems are more powerful. But practice does not prove that assumption on several occasions. Where can the truth be? I think that the development of informatics has departed from quality and gone for quantity. In this specific case it means that computer programs are not properly optimized. Well, I do not think that I have the opportunity to go into its details now but the experience of many supports that idea. So, there are two basic situations:

1. Inefficiently optimized 32-bit software is competing with other inefficiently optimized 32-bit software running on a 64-bit system.
2. Inefficiently optimized 32-bit software is competing with inefficiently optimized 64-bit software which is running on a 64-bit system, has a source code heavily relying on its 32-bit foundations and was developed using a 64-bit development system.

It is easy to understand that the drawbacks coming from insufficient optimization accumulate in the 64-bit system in either case, therefore it falls behind, or cannot produce the results expected based on its true capacities."

That's the thing - beyond gaming industry, where any public beta testing is called "going gold" - real life software companies that sell software to clients can not screw around with ad hoc developments, if something didn't work as it should they would have lawsuits on their hands, as so they will spend their 5 minutes to make 32bit software run in 64bit environment but you will have to wait and wait and wait again for something that is optimized and utilizes capabilities of the OS. Until majority of customers is on 64bit platform there is no point in moving developement down that route. And once you understand that you end up with is basically old software in compatibility mode you will understand you have a Ferrari running in limp mode and being repeatedly taken over by 1 litre Fiestas on very fast moving road...

 

[Elevon]

I agree and have tried both....verdict -VIsta 32 works great no problems and nice OS.
Vista 64, not a single benefit at present(unless you need 4gb Ram), no software, slow games, poor drivers and compatability issues.

I rest my case!

I have the opposite experience,do you think we will be on 32 bit OS forever?...They are quite a few free 64 bit software programs right now available as well(I have five 64 bit programs already installed,btw 4 were free),and you can't compare XP 64 bit to Vista x64,Vista x64 is in a different league,fact is Microsoft is pushing for software and driver support for Vista x64,just wait until games start using 64 bit (some companies have already stated they'll need the extra ram that 64 bit can handle,plus the nice speed increase you'll get with 64 bit performance).


32 bit OS is at the end of the line,its like the transition from 16 bit to 32 bit software years ago,people resisted but the change is coming right now.


I have about 12 games installed from Starcraft to UFO-Afterlight,no problems to report.

I must get back to Baldur's Gate 1 now on my Vista x64 .