Vivarium or Aquarium?

penski · 7 Mar 2006 at 09:14

Angel fish are bloody vicious.

Seriously...if they had opposable thumbs, they'd carry flick-knives.

*n

kitten_caboodle · 7 Mar 2006 at 09:19

phykell said:
*snip.

*gawps* That's amazing.

Wyrdo · 7 Mar 2006 at 09:48

Would love a marine setup, my Uncle and Grandfather both had amazing tanks.

I'll stick with my snakes for now though, maybe when I have more room and more money

LeoWyatt · 7 Mar 2006 at 10:26

Never knew that about grappenhall,

so what sort of equipment would you need to start off?

phykell · 7 Mar 2006 at 11:03

LeoWyatt said:
Never knew that about grappenhall,

so what sort of equipment would you need to start off?

The place in Grappenhall is:

http://www.acropora-house.co.uk

He has a forum section on UltimateReef and is only really open to the public at the weekends. It's best to give him a ring or drop him a line on his forum to find out what he's got in or before you visit but he's a friendly guy and is very knowledgeable plus he has a 17,000 litre system that has to be seen to be believed!

Equipment. I'd look on EBay for a tank reasonably local to you. Juwel or Rena are good tanks and ideally you need something around 250 litres which is relatively small for marine aquariums. It's actually easier to maintain a large tank than a smaller one as any problems you run into are exacerbated by a smaller tank. in fact, nano-marines (100 litres or so) are amongst the most difficult to run successfully.

You'll need some sand, marine salt, heater(s), thermometer, as much live rock as you can afford, a good quality protein skimmer (Deltec), an external canister filter (for filtration at first but eventually move to just polishing the water which removes debris, etc.) and good quality lighting. I'd look for a second-hand Arcadia T5 luminaire if I were you which should cost around £100. There's always one going on the various forums as poeple upgrade to metal halide lighting for the more demanding corals. Ideally, you'll also need a reverse osmosis water filter as tap-water is *not* good enough though you can just buy RO water from your local aquarium shop. The RO water is for topping up due to evaporation and to do water changes which should be done every couple of weeks or so, around 10% - 20% or so of the total volume. Having said all this there are some great intro guides and the best advice I'd give is to read everything you can on the subject before taking the plunge. Here's a place to start from a guy I know - he's set up some very successful systems:

http://www.tropicalfish.site5.com/tfc/showthread.php?t=57159

weeble · 7 Mar 2006 at 11:04

LeoWyatt said:
so what sort of equipment would you need to start off?

I'd imagine a protien skimmer, external filter, good lighting and excellent water chemistry...but I think we need phykell's experience/expertise.

Edit: Just seen phykell's response

TDK · 7 Mar 2006 at 11:49

Ive just set up a marine aquarium, it does end up being expensive but its definately worth it. At the moment I just have live rock (60kg) will be adding some shrimps and crabs soon. I have a similar tank to phykell (rena).

I would recommend getting reverse osmosis machine, its cheaper in the long run and t5 instead of metal halide, its now been proven that they are more powerful than halides with the correct reflector. They also dont evoporate the water anything like as much and are cheaper to run.

Make sure you get test kits, salifert are the best and a refractometer if possible, much more accurate than cheap hydrometers for measuring the salinity.

Here is one of the most incredible marine aquariums I have seen. It would easily be into the 6 figures.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/totm/index.php

VeNT · 7 Mar 2006 at 11:49

not fish,
please not fish

phykell · 7 Mar 2006 at 12:25

TDK said:
I would recommend getting reverse osmosis machine, its cheaper in the long run and t5 instead of metal halide, its now been proven that they are more powerful than halides with the correct reflector.

Are you sure about that? Source? I'd *love* to be proved wrong as I really don't want to have to move to MH lighting.

TDK said:
They also dont evoporate the water anything like as much and are cheaper to run.

T5s are also much easier to handle - MHs are far too easy to break though T5s aren't exactly robust either!

TDK said:
Make sure you get test kits, salifert are the best and a refractometer if possible, much more accurate than cheap hydrometers for measuring the salinity.

Strongly agreed. Again, a refractometer can be had from EBay for very little.

weeble · 7 Mar 2006 at 12:56

How much do RO units go for? May ultimately have to get one, as the water here is not ideal for Discus (will play around with the water whilst the dither fish are there maturing the tank).

TDK · 7 Mar 2006 at 13:19

Yep there are a couple huge threads on rc. 350w of t5 lighting equals 500w of mh lighting.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=679852&highlight=t5s

This is lit by 12 t5 tubes, (860w of lighting) and looks stunning

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=700454

T5 only loose 20% of their light output throughout their life (20,000 hours) although most people say they last 12 months in aquaria use.
MH loose 40% and have a large drop, 20% within the first year and a large colour shift (just look at warehouses and car showrooms, some of the bulbs are different colours.)

T5s are slightly more efficient 80-90 lumens per watt where as MH are 70-80 lumens per watt.

They light the tank evenly, mh are pinpoint light source.

I would upgrade your lighting to 6 t5 tubes. Make sure you get good reflectors, since they will increase light output by 50%. (flat reflectors reflect light from the rear of the tube through the tube and so it looses some light intensity. The more advanced reflectors are W shaped which reflects light around the tube.

As for RO units they start at £45 for a 35 gallon unit.

http://www.ro-man.com/shop/index.php/cPath/22

These are great, I have 100 gallon unit with tds meter.

phykell · 7 Mar 2006 at 14:14

weeble said:
How much do RO units go for? May ultimately have to get one, as the water here is not ideal for Discus (will play around with the water whilst the dither fish are there maturing the tank).

You can get a 6 stage 100 gal/day one which can be plumbed in with a reservoir tank for under £100 from EBay. Definitely worth it for the improvement in drinking water quality as well as the fish.

TDK said:
Yep there are a couple huge threads on rc. 350w of t5 lighting equals 500w of mh lighting. <snip>

Thanks, I'll have a read of those

One point though, you will lose the sparkly effect of MH with T5s. The motion of the water tends to create ripples of light which are missing with a tube system.

weeble · 7 Mar 2006 at 14:28

phykell said:
You can get a 6 stage 100 gal/day one which can be plumbed in with a reservoir tank for under £100 from EBay. Definitely worth it for the improvement in drinking water quality as well as the fish.

I presume they're relatively easy to plumb in akin to taps, washing machines etc?

LeoWyatt · 8 Mar 2006 at 14:52

Anyone know of any UK supplier of nano cubes or aqua-pods. Been looking into these but can't seem to find any online uk suppliers. There is one in the states that will supply to the UK but am trying to find one here.