Volvo T6 or T8 Hybrids - Experience

[sandys]

I've been looking to change our tow vehicle for a couple of years now sitting on the fence waiting to see how the electric revolution progresses.

We have pretty modest tow requirements a small van and a sprint car obviously not at the same time could probably do this with 1800kg even with future upgrades so this had us considering an XC40 P8 but even now a few years on from my first look into it (we were buying pre covid and have been WFH since which put us on pause ) the infrastructure hasn't improved massively and when you are towing in the arse end of nowhere having to plan charging paths and guaranteeing fast charging is not ideal.

I see that Volvo have recently updated their hybrid powertrains to a much larger battery, 11kw to 18kw this would make the vehicle ideal for our non towing daily grind and have petrol for the rest, intially we were looking at x5 and gle as the only Hybrid with a decent battery but when I took the missus for a look at them she baulked at the size, the XC60 is a little bit more acceptable, to her at least, from a perspective of not requiring such a large ladder to get in

Any owners of Volvos hybrid on here can to share experience, reliability how good is the powertrain etc.

 

[sandys]

Good stuff, sounds like really early days for you though, our intention would be to treat it as an electric car for most of its non towing duties, not for economy purpose or saving money, just for the convenience of just latching it up at home and green reasons like clean air whilst doing round town stuff and child duties, school, sports etc. most of the round trip for the missus is <20 miles so might even get a couple of days out of a charge on the bigger battery.

Our current diesel 4x4 does a solid low 20s mpg in these scenarios as it goes nowhere fast and never gets a run for its DPF, it has not bothered us one bit with so few miles but we thought we switch it up so the vehicle is better suited to day to day, we have considered just going for a straight petrol and saving a ton of cash as there aren't really many benefits to a Hybrid for a private buyer out side of my being a bit greener and still be able to tow unaffected by the EV charging inconvenience of having to unhitch, charge up and re-hitch use case when towing, the concern is the hybrid comes with a load of complexity and possibly high repair costs later in life, that and the pull of an F-Pace SVR is strong, oh wait that doesn't save any dough or the environment

 

[sandys]

Range on these is pretty poor though isn't it? Something like 15 miles

Depends on your driving, fast motor way on the small battery yup it will be low but people do manage 25 miles on the small battery, they have just upped the battery size with the facelift on T6 and T8 from 11kw to 18kw so I'd imagine 30 miles should be achievable, particularly if you use the at home pre-heat etc as we would.

Of course having a back up petrol you don't have to care about making it anywhere if you come up a couple of miles short.

 

[sandys]

Its going to depend on your trip and what regen etc. but as mentioned it doesn't matter right, you have a petrol there you are not going to be stranded but yup that is part of the reason I am asking for any experience, but Volvos are probably a bit too old man for this forum .

WLTP range on the T6 is 48.5 miles, in the T8 it is 46.6, I've no idea how this equates to real world. If I got half of that it would do.

 

[sandys]

Seems decent for the small battery on a big car like that, aligns with most reviews that suggest people are getting ~20 miles out of it like so

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/volvo-xc90-t8-recharge--ph-review/45157

XC60 is smaller though not much lighter with a bigger battery, as mentioned reckon the missus might get two days out of it perhaps more if she doesn't go into the office and to be honest if she goes into the office she can charge for free, so can't see why we wouldn't use that, though lots of EVs and one charge point mean you have to be lucky to get it, not that she would, she won't even put fuel in a car never mind latch up electric, it'd be another one of my man duties

In terms of her driving, she is never out of 20-40mph zone, average speed on trip is ~13mph ( be faster on a pushbike ) so I'm quite positive it'd work well but also concerned I'm too positive on a hybrids abilities

 

[sandys]

Yup we checked out the Lexus on the weekend as we are buying new (if I can find a 455 Polestar Engineered I might get secondhand and take the battery hit because I'm still a big kid ) it is nice, far more modern than the Volvos, who's interior could do with a update rather than just the Google update its got I mean blimey who thought wrapping the Google interface around Volvos old Clunky UI was a good idea, it's a new OS give it a new UI and screen, how much could you have really saved especially when you see how good Polestar did it and they are effectively the same company, it's the one let down for me, anyway, I can only imagine that it was not done as new XCs will be along soon so they saved some dough.

Problem with the Lexus is that it is just not that comfortable in the higher FSPORT trim and the step down to get seats that are comfortable take a notch out of the looks as they are are so bland, that and the 1500kg tow ability that just about covers my packed lunch It would actually do us right now TBH and the draw of a 10yr warranty is strong as I will buy and run till it dies but the XC60 is mostly better specced, 2200kg tow and cheaper even when adding in extra warranty cover for 6yrs as at the moment there are no discounts on NX or at least I wasn't offered them.

the C300e estate is so cheap comparatively, it seems like a steal but the missus took one look and a bit of sick came up

 

[sandys]

No I haven't driven the Polestar yet, nor an XC60 with 22s which I absolutely love the look of because they add a bit of attitude as they also come along with the arch extensions, the suspension side I'm sure i'll be happy with, I have adjustable suspension in some of my cars, typically I find a setting I like then never change it I guess it is probably on run flats too which never help ride, can't imagine it'd be worse than my Abarth but I wouldn't purchase a car without testing one first, lot of dough to spend without doing that. I could take a hit on 22s if they were wrong and change but if the car was wrong that's another matter.

Bound to feel like limo compared to current fleet, creakyness would be annoying in a car of that price point though, we drove a couple of Kias the other week, the Sportage and EV6 and the lack of refinement in suspension was surprising, comfortable but firm thumps, quite noisy in the cabin, not creaky just the suspension doing its job noise, I expected better from a new car but I guess all the Hybrid and battery stuff is adding so much weight you have to go harder with suspension.

 

[sandys]

FYI larger Volvo wheel sizes are odd, hard to find runflats; cars not supplied with runflats.

Good shout I see they come with 255/40/22 which doesn't give much choice at all but in another model year they were also fitted with 265/35/22 these would clearly impact range looking at how the WLTP drops from 46miles to 42 on PE but more choice available, 255 would probably be more comfortable with the extra sidewall though.

If you appreciate ride comfort please dont get the 22" wheels.

Common sense would suggest you are right but I am happy to try and buy another set if we find it too compromised, I have a garage wall full of wheels/tyres for different reasons, I'd just add to my stash for winter/summer.

My 2021 Sorento PHEV (the only other 7 seat PHEV at the moment) gets a rock steady 28 miles on ev only with its 13.8 kwh battery. Shocking fuel consumption on motorway journeys to Scotland though. Average consumption with 4 up an luggage at 70 mpg is arpund 30-35 mpg. When compared to the '999' consumption on ev only it really makes you think about how much fuel actually costs. My previous Q7 50tdi averaged 34mpg long term so the phev does make a difference as I my long term average is 63 mpg with a lot of ev only journeys.

I didn't go for the XC90 as the battery was too small and the ev range wouldn't allow me to do the daily journeys on EV only.

Nice, Kias Electrics generally seem to be very efficient compared to the likes of VAG or Volvo etc, when we came out of Kia the Sorento was the motor my missus was most impressed by despite its size, we never tried it though as it can't tow more than 1500, we'[d not want to go below 1600, you'd think they would do better really as it was the old caravan and camping favourite, I'm sure many bought them in the past just because it could pull a house, with a good warranty and stacked with kit.

Good to hear that PHEV are working for the local stuff though for people generally makes me feel a bit better about the idea.

 

[sandys]

Youtube being what it is knowing everything about me has just thrown up a range test of the new battery on the xc90, 35.8 miles despite running in 0-3 degrees, bodes well for the xc60 and my use case. Looks like it is running 275s too.

 

[sandys]

What would you buy instead of an XC60 when looking for reasonable EV range for daily duties and towing ability of ~1800kg?

I may well have missed some alternatives, always good to hear what is about.

 

[sandys]

Budget is a bit fluid it seems The original XC60 T6 I was looking at was 52 but a healthy bit of spec creep has me up to 58 on a T8 for more power and air suspension etc plus other stuff I probably don't need That's new prices though with 8-9 months lead time, used is not a lot different TBH but I can have it now.

I rather pay the lower figure but would go to 60 for the right car.

 

[sandys]

I've had an XC60 T8 R-Design now for a couple of years (MY20 I think it is. 390bhp) and I have an XC90 Recharge T8 on order (one with the 18kwh Battery and 455bhp) as we need 7 seats now with a 4th bubba coming.

In all honesty, I've loved the last couple of years with it. The drive and power for such a big car is hilarious! I went to this from an Audi A4 just for the extra space with 3 step kids.

snip

Great bit of feedback, sounds good and like the Hybrid side is working out well for you also, specs have been refined a bit now for MY23 XC60 as they have cut down the models to 3 trims, possibly led by shortages or competition, if I go for the cheaper T6 PHEV in a Plus Dark it seems to come with most things, I've only had to option wheels, tinted windows, met paint, side steps and tow pack in my quote, I say only, that is pretty much all you can option

The lower spec does loose out over the T8 on a couple of things like the air suspension, Active LED lights, vented massage seats (option), leather trimmed dash and higher spec audio but thing the only things I really care about there are the suspension and lights the other things are just nice to have. realistically things like the extra power will never be used until I get behind the wheel and as mentioned its not a sports car so doubt its going to have the same appeal as hooning my track car about, amusingly both XC60s are faster than my MX5 track car in a straight line at least actually might not be true with latest ITB build rocking 260bhp but the T8 would definately give it trouble.

Low charging rate is probably the only real negative meaning it is really only home or destination based charging which is a shame but would work for our current use cases. Seems standard on PHEVs to disregard charging, only Merc bucking the trend with 55Kw DC charger on the C300e allowing for a quick pitstop charge up for another 60miles, perhaps I should wait for that drive train in a GLC.

 

[sandys]

Did a test drive today in an xc60 T8 with 22" and air suspension, ride was really good, it was on the lower profile 265 tyre too, like the car generally, bit wobbly over very potted surfaces, its no sports car but a real nice level of refinement so I've popped an order in. At the moment though it is for the T6 on 20" which whilst sensible and all we need, it makes me a little sad so I am mulling over if I want the other stuff enough to switch it up to a T8 and 22s, there's plenty of time until the build.

Weirdly they won't let you spec the 22s on a T6 .... Booo....so I'll do something after market probably if I don't switch to T8.

 

[sandys]

22” will be a loads issue. Ie needs the extra sidewall of smaller wheels to manage the weight inputs.

it’s not only Merc doing decent DC charge rates on PHEVS

T8 is the heavier car seems to be an unreasonable product segmentation thing.

We also tried the XC40 recharge twin again to rule it in/out, it really doesn't feel as nice when you've come out of the XC60, it does feel like a step down.

 

[sandys]

will probably be too late for sandys - good to see mazda are delivering on the 6 cyclinder NA engines they announced a few years back (taking the reins from bmw/merc)
with 18kwh phev cx-60/80. First-ever Mazda CX-60 with 6-cyl or PHEV = the Japanese BMW

... volvo electric rear axle phev's are currently a necessary architecture/efficiency compromise from the (seems) limited ~250bhp power that can be put through asin/merc/sorento hybrid transmissions, bmw x45e looks like the exception with their hybrid transmission.
]

Nothing is too late for me, car is not scheduled to arrive until November, in that time if something better comes along I can drop it, but I do like most aspects of the XC60 inside and out whereas the CX-60 looks a little challenging to my eyes with only the front end working for me. I'm sure it would be a better drive than the Volvo, most cars are, the Volvo is a comfortable cruiser with a silly turn of pace but not in the least bit sporty which suits the missus, it's predominantly hers not mine, the 4cylinder is a let down though when it kicks in, couldn't persuade the missus on the X5 which is a shame.

I do like Mazda as a company, I like their approach to tech and engines, still developing NA engines and manuals, keeping things like the MX-5 lightweight etc, and not just larding the cars up and slapping a turbo on everything to compensate.

Weight is the problem with most cars at the moment, especially anything electrified like this, I'm interested to see if Mazda still have the weight focus when they do this PHEV but of course two powertrains is always going to have a penalty, my own cars don't top 1100kgs, I was test driving the baby BMW, the M2 comp to replace my car, revvy like an NA, manual, awesome, but what a bloody tank, 1650kgs!!! and it feels it, how does that happen, I have had lighter 7 seats SUVs.

 

[sandys]

Couple of range test with the latest battery/motor driven at 75mph popped up on this channel on a V90 and XC60 in slightly better conditions than the one posted above, run at approx 12C, not much range improvement, though I guess it could be argued the earlier one was driven slower at colder temps to hit same range.

At 75 the motor is doing approx 2.4 miles per kilowatt, not amazing efficiency but 36 miles on a charge @ 75mph isn't terrible, I'm assuming this is less efficient for the drivetrain than city driving so this should suit the missus quite well. This figure is some way off the quoted 3.2 mpkw.

Hopefully ours will arrive in the next 6 months and I will find out.

 

[sandys]

will probably be too late for sandys - good to see mazda are delivering on the 6 cyclinder NA engines they announced a few years back (taking the reins from bmw/merc)
with 18kwh phev cx-60/80. First-ever Mazda CX-60 with 6-cyl or PHEV = the Japanese BMW

Well 6 months on still no motor from Volvo, in the meantime this CX-60 has become available in the UK and a dealer got in touch yesterday getting me behind the wheel of one today, it's a very good motor, drives well, has loads of benefits over the Volvo

more tow weight, faster charging, always awd regardless of mode, bigger boot, a functional infotainment, proper buttons everywhere, and all the stuff you expect and list price v list price a 12k saving (vs equiv t6, 20k vs my t8) .....it's almost a no brainer, lacked the ultimate refinement of the volvo and its motor/ev integration is not as seamless or as smooth but the Mazda seems like a cracker, looks good in the metal too.

I can be in one October 1st, a few weeks for a new motor, blimey!

In addition, the new GLC is about to drop also, that has a 60 mile battery range and dc charging, the longer Volvo take to serve me up a car the harder it gets to stick with the Volvo, what seemed like a good deal for my needs early 2022 is starting to look a little less competitive.

Lots to think about.

 

[sandys]

Indeed seems that way but it is not clear cut, it'd actually be a bit more in my saving case but Mazda not really in the same class, it's good but not quite up there with the Volvo for refinement and luxury feel, not a million miles away but quite a few whirs and clunks etc, from drivetrain which make it feel lower tier, though too its credit the 4 pot sounded better than the Volvo and was leagues above the crashy Koreans on the suspension front.

The lack of boost could be a concern towing once the battery is depleted, it's a 2.5 so it's not completely torque less but <200lbs of torque pulling a few tonnes of car/trailer could be a struggle, just no replacement for grunt requirement, a turbo diesel/petrol or more cylinders better here.

Things like comfort access though where seats, mirrors and steering position are stored per driver are a winner, this was great in our Merc, me and my missus are very different body shape and height, large and little so have vastly different everything when driving a car, this sort of feature is killer and it's amazing the amount of supposedly premium motors can't do it, the Volvo doesn't do the wheel for example, just the rest.

So yeh, not clear cut, on monies Mazda is an easy winner, it is a lot of car for the dough but on doing the job we want from it needs further consideration. The GLE350de is probably the perfect drivetrain, diesel and electric, too much car though, the new glc will have both diesel and petrol plugin with big battery.

 

[sandys]

Yup, I am leaning that way, we did go for a retest of the T8 immediately afterwards and there's no question the the Volvo is the better car but the Mazda gives very little up to it or the competing Germans we've tried on the whole.

Missus is not so enamored, though I wonder if that is more of a status thing, she feels Mazda is like a Vauxhall and much less impressive, badge snob she's not really she liked the car though, but she loves the Volvo, so that is a hurdle, In typical fashion she has already said that 'we' can put the saving towards a house remodel ..... I'll never win which ever way I go

 

[sandys]

Well hung in there and picked up the XC60 T8, lovely car generally, can't say the Hybrid is working out well as well for me as I'd hoped, not sure how much of that is too much time sat in car setting up profiles and apps etc and maybe it will settle when I stop experimenting but struggling to hit anywhere where near 35 miles out of EV mode like reviewers, the missus was doing about 20-25 miles, of course with the kids in there on school run all 4 heated seats and wheel etc plus the heating as it has been sub zero past few days perhaps this is to be expected, I did nudge 30 when in it myself on a nicer day, so its not terrible just thought it might fair better with our low speed driving profile.

Still enough for most of her local stuff but its a daily charge which at my rates is ~£4.5, so £2.2 cheaper than the old car and less emissions etc, so don't feel so bad sat in the car waiting outside the school or sports pickups with car on for heat now Once I get the home battery I can get on a time of use tariff, but for now I have a lock that sees my main electric rate the best for my house if not optimal for an EV/PHEV and we don't do enough mileage to care about the car usage but that'd drop the charge rate to £2 a charge.

Seems like it'll do pretty decent petrol mpg as a hybrid, though not had a long enough run in it yet to test, I can see a tank of petrol lasting quite a long time due to running as an EV, might have to get into the habit of not filling the tank and just putting a few quid in

Need to see if we have stuff enabled that is to aggressive a consumer, certainly preheating isn't cheap at ~3.6Kw.

Sucks that the manual is all online so I can't just sit and read it in a nice structure manner, rubbish cost cutting step by Volvo.

Had no issues with the Google side of things yet, that all seems great.

The Slow charging is more annoying that I had imagined, 3.6Kw not enough, this is fixed for MY24 though only 6.6K, even that strikes me as slow.

Will report back once we are out of tinkering phase.