VR upgrades for DCS

[forteh]

Hi all, wishing to pick the collective mind here if I may...

Currently using a lenovo explorer for simming (DCS/PC2/AC/DR) and whilst it's a good comfy headset with relatively clear visuals I'm having to crank steamvr resolutions to get the clarity I'd like which then gives a performance hit. I'm using 150% global steamvr resolution and 240% application specific for DCS which should give a combined total of 360%, on top of that I add MSAA in DCS to just take off the edges.

With the VR preset in DCS + steamvr resolution I can pull 50ish fps in the A10C instant action, bumping textures/shadows/view distance/MSAA drops this down to 45ish. I run the headset at 90hz with motion smoothing off in DCS, fortunately I don't seem to suffer from VR sickness.

CPU is Ryzen5 3600 @ 4.4ghz on all cores, gpu is rog strix gtx1070 @2101 core/8950 memory, 16gig 3200ddr4.

Ideally I would upgrade to a 3070 or the like but I can't justify the current market price, alternatively could I upgrade the lenovo to a reverb and use the higher resolution display to reduce the requirement to bump up the steamvr supersampling to achieve picture clarity? Even running at half resolution I believe it would be better than the lenovo and if the frametimes allow I could try full resolution with a steamvr downsample.

Anyone able to offer input?
Even better, anyone near Lichfield with a reverb willing to let me test it out?

TL : DR better to use steamvr supersampling as a crutch for low resolution VR display or use a high resolution display from the outset and downsample to allow the GPU to catch up?

 

[forteh]

To be fair, the screen door on the lenovo is very good, I never see it. Running at native resolution is ugly and whilst I can supersample up till it's not, I think that's imparting some blurriness.
I know that the 1070 likely never hit 90fps with the full resolution on the reverb but I'm fairly comfortable with VR fps down to 35 or so and more than happy to be sitting at 45-50 so it might be useable, ideally I just don't want to drop the cash on it to find that it's not a workable solution

 

[forteh]

Ah yes, already using FSR, forgot to mention that one
Currently running at 0.7 renderscale and 1 sharpening.
FWIW I'm reasonably happy with the performance of the 1070 in DCS, just questioning if I could get a better image quality more efficiently by changing the lenovo to a reverb.

 

[forteh]

That's sort of the way I'm leaning, gives me a bit more of a justification for the expenditure!

The index resolution is only slightly above the Lenovo so apart from the frame rate (120 vs 90) they shouldn't be too different in terms of horsepower required to drive them.

Do you run the index at 90 or 120?

 

[forteh]

Ah I wasn't considering an index, my rig is in a 43" square walk in cupboard* I play exclusively seated and other than sims only HL alyx and skyrim VR (use razer hydra rather than WMR controllers). As nice as it would be to have the index/controllers etc. I just can't use them due to space.
A controllerless G2 is 440 quid at cex which is sorely tempting.

*a bit like harry potter, except with a TM warthog, TM rudders, 599xx TX wheel, T3PA pro pedals, home made shifter & handbrake and cobra bucket seat

 

[forteh]

Well I accidentally bought one, I'll report back as to how bad it is

 

[forteh]

Well I accidentally bought one, I'll report back as to how bad it is

And after three days of waiting for a dispatch notice from cex I get an email saying that they've cancelled the order because they can't find the stock...

To eBay I guess, shame I don't have MM access to have a peruse

 

[forteh]

I'm planning on running it downsampled till I can upgrade the 1070 (1060 is recommended for half res iirc). Currently running halflife alyx at higher than reverb supersampling (2400 per eye) and it's bobbling along quite happily at 75-100+fps with the Lenovo. DCS I have supersampling set to 3000 per eye and still get 45+fps with reasonable settings. Appreciate that HLA does dynamic resolution stuff in the background but I have yet to see any evidence of it or drop in visual quality.

I'm not playing any high speed games where low frametimes are essential and I don't have any issues with low fps with motion smoothing off.

I grabbed one on eBay which should arrive tomorrow, I'll see how bad it is but if theory holds true I may be able to run the reverb at 100% and get reasonable frametimes. I could be theorising crap and I'll come back with feedback for you all to chortle at

 

[forteh]

Ah yeah I have no illusions that it's going to be full speed, full res with the 1070. I will upgrade the GPU when prices settle* but for now I'll wind the G2 down to workable levels.

The stock 1070 is recommended for half res, mine happily runs at 2100/8950mhz which is 12-15% over its standard ROG binned boost so I'm reckoning to realistically aim at about 70% scaling and see where it goes from there.

*Happily pay money for hardware but not pay over the odds for hardware artificially raised due to shortage.

 

[forteh]

Righto so the reverb arrived this morning

Only took 4 different USB ports till it picked up (motherboard USB A via adaptor) and connected all in nicely, fortunately because I was coming directly from the lenovo explorer I already had all of WMR set up barring the controllers so no other issues almost simply plug and play.

Just spent 30 mins or so testing it out and this is where I've gotten to so far....

Steam had set the global resolution to 32% by default whereas it had set the lenovo to 150%, I think this is just steam basing it off the hardware configuration.

Pushed the global resolution up to 70% and booted up HL:A, set the app specific render to 100% and it's running 8-10ms frametimes and it's buttery smooth, testing both high and ultra fidelity didn't massively affect the frametimes, I think that the dynamic resolution thing they have going on is playing a part in that though. Either way, it looks great and is smooth, clarity is better than the lenovo particularly at distance but up close looks similar - don't forget that I was running the lenovo at 300% supersampling and I was always happy with the performance in HL:A though.

Jumped into DCS, left the global at 70% and set app specific to 70% and loaded up the A10C instant action that I've been using as a performance testing reference, all other settings were as per what I was using with the lenovo which would get around 40-45 fps fairly consistently. Initially, the clarity is better with far less aliasing visible in the cockpit, yes I could wind it up and get better but it's already better than the lenovo was when running shedloads of supersampling; the picture is much crisper. Fps is running from 45-60 which is absolutely fine.

So my theory was largely correct, it's improved clarity due to native resolution, it's improved performance by not smashing SS to try to achieve clarity with the lower resolution of the lenovo and it's sharper all round because it's not a smudging with the SS antialiasing. It's a little heavier than the lenovo but still exceptionally comfortable, the sweet spot is much larger so I don't have issues with my right eye going out of focus*, the audio is fantastic from what I've experienced so far and makes a nice change from the jabra 65ts I was using previously.

All in all I'm very pleased and achieved what I've set out to do which was to improve the clarity first and foremost in DCS, I could not have done that with a GPU upgrade as you can't really brute force more detail into the lenovo screens. The 1070 appears to hold up quite nicely with the slightly lower res, I dare say there will be times when it starts to struggle but for a card that I paid 200 quid for three years ago I'm very happy with it


*highsided a motorbike 15 years ago and faceplanted the floor, since then it doesn't focus quite as well as the left so the small sweet spot of the lenovo meant I had to readjust by a couple of mm every so often, the reverb is much more stable with the full strap which helps.

 

[forteh]

Lobby your MP for financial regulation on Crypto that should free up the GPU market

I present to you, our local MP....

 

[forteh]

I know what you mean, like running 1080p @ 1024.
Well certainly there doesn't appear to be significant clarity lost by downsampling, just tested DCS at 100% global and 100% per app and it's still pulling 40-45 fps (20-25ms ish) but it's not quite a smooth as 70% so I'll be keeping DCS wound down for now.
GPU didn't top 64°C and it's 26°C ambient in here (computer in a small walk in cupboard and it's been on all day) so thermals aren't too bad

 

[forteh]

Give it a go, may work out ok. I will try clocking mine back to default and see what difference it makes speed wise.

The 1070 is certified for half res and that is still a pretty good VR experience. At native res it absolutely blows the Lenovo out of the water which is to be expected. To get the Lenovo even close quality wise it needs the supersampling thrown at it which gives a somewhat blurry/muddy result.

 

[forteh]

A little more testing last night, this time in elite, global set to 100% per app set to 70% most settings on high. Frametimes in open space down to 8ms, in high rez combat amongst the asteroids it sat around 12ms (this is with ultra environments on because it's purdy). Stations as always are much slower running all the way up to 25ms but still perfectly smooth and look glorious

Thanks to @kevman and @lokiss for the feedback I needed to make the jump